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Stellantis sells VM Motori...

Zachanadandy

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You can't make claims saying "everyone" or "100%" when talking about things impossible to know.

Very possible, sure, because there is uncertainty.
100% of the ones that go 200k+ miles don't have major failures before 200k miles...or they are part of the huge percentage that never got there. It's like looking at elderly people to try and figure out the cause of childhood death. It's mostly meaningless.
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biodiesel

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I believe the VM Motori Marine version of the 3.0 was the MR 506 SH3
There's a lot of shared parts across platforms. For example, the same piston and rings found in the EcoDiesel can also be found in a Mercedes.
 

Wheelin98TJ

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100% of the ones that go 200k+ miles don't have major failures before 200k miles...or they are part of the huge percentage that never got there. It's like looking at elderly people to try and figure out the cause of childhood death. It's mostly meaningless.
And looking only in forums or other social media at elderly people.
 
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What boats are they using these in? I'm not familiar with any.
It is fairly hard to find information unless you are in the industry of boat builders, as they will normally just list specs and often not exactly what was used, but they also have to file paperwork with RINA, Lloyd’s, EU declaration... I know that Fratelli Aprea, Sciallino, Cantiere Navale Lorenzoni, and Mercury Marine use VM Motori engines and I think Novamarine Black Shivers may run them, but I am not sure.
Haven't been in that world for too long.
 

Zachanadandy

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And looking only in forums or other social media at elderly people.
It's like the great rich celebrity advice to people struggling financially... just stop being poor. In order to get your EcoDiesel to last, just don't have any major failures before you get there. Obviously.
 

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PlayfulBird

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There's a lot of shared parts across platforms. For example, the same piston and rings found in the EcoDiesel can also be found in a Mercedes.
That is exciting news. I haven't heard that. Very cool.
 

biodiesel

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You can't make claims saying "everyone" or "100%" when talking about things impossible to know.

Very possible, sure, because there is uncertainty.
Again, you're taking things out of context. I'm referring to the data we've collected. 100% of the data we've collected has shown no component failures on those with 200,000+ mile rigs. Obviously, that data could change tomorrow if someone reports a component failure.

We have several dozen EcoDiesel owners that are taking oil samples at each interval so we can evaluate wear rates, soot levels, fuel dilution, and compare oil performance.
 

biodiesel

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How can you claim 100% actuator failures covered under the 100k mile warranty?
Because I have communicated with 100% of the participates who have come to the forums and reported a failure.
 

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That is exciting news. I haven't heard that. Very cool.
I've spent many hours talking to the engine builders over the last several years. They've been kind enough to share some of their inside knowledge. They also have contacts in Europe which has proven to be a huge help. I've been collecting part numbers for the last few years. Almost everything is made in Europe, but shockingly, those Mercedes pistons are made in the USA and manufactured by Hastings!
 

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It is fairly hard to find information unless you are in the industry of boat builders, as they will normally just list specs and often not exactly what was used, but they also have to file paperwork with RINA, Lloyd’s, EU declaration... I know that Fratelli Aprea, Sciallino, Cantiere Navale Lorenzoni, and Mercury Marine use VM Motori engines and I think Novamarine Black Shivers may run them, but I am not sure.
Haven't been in that world for too long.
That could be why I'm unfamiliar. The only one I've heard of in that list is Mercury.

Most the American boat builders use Ilmor, Indmar, PCM, Volvo Penta, or Mercury to name a few.
 

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Wheelin98TJ

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Again, you're taking things out of context. I'm referring to the data we've collected. 100% of the data we've collected has shown no component failures on those with 200,000+ mile rigs. Obviously, that data could change tomorrow if someone reports a component failure.

We have several dozen EcoDiesel owners that are taking oil samples at each interval so we can evaluate wear rates, soot levels, fuel dilution, and compare oil performance.
I originally said I might be misunderstanding. Seems like context is missing.

"The data we've collected" helps clarify, but I still don't know where it was collected and what the sample size is.
 

biodiesel

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"The data we've collected" helps clarify, but I still don't know where it was collected and what the sample size is.
Sample sizes vary based on the component. In many cases, once we've established a failure pattern, then we lose interest and stop collecting new data. For example, the data shows that most lift pump failures on the Gen 2 platform fail between 140,000 - 180,000 miles. Even though there are outliers, I've suggested that it would be wise to replace the lift pump within that range if preventative maintenance is desired rather than run-to-failure.

In other words, I'm using data to drive decisions regarding service life of a particular part. The purpose is to minimize breakdowns, maximize reliability, reduce expensive emergency costs, and minimize downtime.

Let's talk about factors. The folks who had early lift pump failures, at least those who experienced a failure before 120,000 miles shared a commonality. Many of those owners had a habit of driving on empty tanks. It's been speculated that driving on empty tanks, especially in the hot summer months, stress the pumps.

Diesel fuel keeps the pump cool. Diesel fuel coming off the HPFP (return fuel) has been measured upwards to 190*F. If the fuel tank is already low, then we know that diesel fuel is reaching critical temperatures which puts stress on the pump. We (including experts in the field) believe that driving on empty tanks, especially in warm climates, puts unnecessary stress on the pump resulting in premature failures.

Part of data collection is trying to understand the story behind each failure, asking questions about driving habits, etc. I'm using this as an example because it takes a team of people (oftentimes those with some level of expertise) to better understand failure rates. By no means is the data perfect but I applaud those who contribute. Some of us are legitimately trying to make better decisions about long-term ownership. It's not everyone's gig, and I get it. But I'm glad to help those who are asking questions.
 

Wheelin98TJ

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Sample sizes vary based on the component. In many cases, once we've established a failure pattern, then we lose interest and stop collecting new data. For example, the data shows that most lift pump failures on the Gen 2 platform fail between 140,000 - 180,000 miles. Even though there are outliers, I've suggested that it would be wise to replace the lift pump within that range if preventative maintenance is desired rather than run-to-failure.

In other words, I'm using data to drive decisions regarding service life of a particular part. The purpose is to minimize breakdowns, maximize reliability, reduce expensive emergency costs, and minimize downtime.

Let's talk about factors. The folks who had early lift pump failures, at least those who experienced a failure before 120,000 miles shared a commonality. Many of those owners had a habit of driving on empty tanks. It's been speculated that driving on empty tanks, especially in the hot summer months, stress the pumps.

Diesel fuel keeps the pump cool. Diesel fuel coming off the HPFP (return fuel) has been measured upwards to 190*F. If the fuel tank is already low, then we know that diesel fuel is reaching critical temperatures which puts stress on the pump. We (including experts in the field) believe that driving on empty tanks, especially in warm climates, puts unnecessary stress on the pump resulting in premature failures.

Part of data collection is trying to understand the story behind each failure, asking questions about driving habits, etc. I'm using this as an example because it takes a team of people (oftentimes those with some level of expertise) to better understand failure rates. By no means is the data perfect but I applaud those who contribute. Some of us are legitimately trying to make better decisions about long-term ownership. It's not everyone's gig, and I get it. But I'm glad to help those who are asking questions.
Do you mind sharing where the data is being collected from?
 

biodiesel

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Do you mind sharing where the data is being collected from?
Most data comes from multiple facebook groups. The forum is the second largest contributor. I'm also getting information from a Mopar MasterTech and a few Mopar diesel techs. The diesel techs are super helpful because they see a significant number of EcoDiesels. It's nice when our data lines up with what dealer techs are also seeing.

It's easy to dismiss forums because they have a lower traffic flow, however, I've noticed that many (if not the majority) of folks who posted in my Turbo Failure thread actually joined the forum because they found my post through a google search. In the case of the turbo failures, I was able to collect more data by bringing people to the forum rather than sampling a limited number of forum members.
 

ssrlewis

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I have a 2018 Grand Cherokee ecoDiesel that we bought used in Feb 2020 with 13,311 miles. I added the GDE Tune Aug 2021 at 56,429 miles. Up until last month this is all I have done to it: had the HPFP recall done, replaced the windshield, both in tank fuel pumps, battery, rear driveshaft, brakes, and tires.

Last month it overheated thanks to the stupid turbo coolant line under the intake that ruptured. I replaced that line, along with all the other small coolant lines that are hard to get to, heater hoses, radiator hoses, and EGR Cooler with the BulletProof EGR Cooler. (biodiesel hit me up whenever and I can keep you updated on how the cooler is holding up) and at that time the Grand had 210,529 miles.

So the way I figure I either got a REALLY good one or the ecoDiesel isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be now for the other one.

I also purchased a used Gladiator ecoDiesel with 37" last October with 62,919 miles. I have added the GDE Tune and a couple of months ago had the HPFP recall complied with. At the end of August I got the 'service electronic throttle/traction control/check engine lights along with being put into limp mode'. After clearing codes all would return so I took to dealer since I purchased the warranty and as of last Friday they had an inspector come out to see if the warranty would cover the damage to the turbo and I'm still waiting to here if I'm going to have to get nasty. The Gladiator is currently just south of 85,000 miles.

My thoughts on the subject is more people to tend to bitch than praise on forums so I take all I read with a spoonful of salt.


Steve
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