Sunrider owners - MY mess-up, or theirs?

[Stan H]

Me thinks there is something rotten in Denmark

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[ShadowsPapa]

Hmmm...your latched even look flimsy in comparison to my Bestop hinges. Even the interior side of the fabric looks different on mine (I have the higher level twill) as does the leading edge that rests on the windscreen seal:

Sure is looking more and more like it is a knock-off product made for Jeep. Quality is not up to Bestop standards....I've purchased from them three times now...always quality and good engineering.

Does Jeep actually call it a "Sunrider"? I would think "Sunrider" would be proprietary to Bestop?

And if it's a knock-off...why is Bestop involved/interested...unless they sold the specs to Jeep, so Jeep could find a cheaper manufacturer?

No one can make it for Jeep, including Jeep, without licensing it from Bestop. That normally means any changes must be approved by Bestop. No one can legally simply start making these.
It either has to be made for Jeep by Bestop, or Jeep has to license/buy the rights from Bestop to have it made. Normally, Bestop would retain all rights to dictate things such as quality and so on to protect their product, and name.

Sunrider is a registered name - they can't use it without permission from Bestop - so, they are tangled in this for multiple reasons.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Hmmm...your latched even look flimsy in comparison to my Bestop hinges. Even the interior side of the fabric looks different on mine (I have the higher level twill) as does the leading edge that rests on the windscreen seal:

Sure is looking more and more like it is a knock-off product made for Jeep. Quality is not up to Bestop standards....I've purchased from them three times now...always quality and good engineering.

Does Jeep actually call it a "Sunrider"? I would think "Sunrider" would be proprietary to Bestop?

And if it's a knock-off...why is Bestop involved/interested...unless they sold the specs to Jeep, so Jeep could find a cheaper manufacturer?

LOL - those latches are hardly "flimsy". They are solid as heck. Made differently, yes, but the strength will be the same - I'd bet on it. Not sure where you are getting "flimsy" from - there's no wiggle or wobble and they are nice and tight, no give at all.
Fabric actually looks the same to me as well, comparing multiple pictures.
Not sure where that's coming from.
This isn't a case of "knockoff" - it must be a licensed product, with Bestop's control, or Jeep would be sued, unable to use the term "Sunrider" as it's protected. You can bet Bestop would be all over that.

 

[Stan H]

No one can make it for Jeep, including Jeep, without licensing it from Bestop. That normally means any changes must be approved by Bestop. No one can legally simply start making these.
It either has to be made for Jeep by Bestop, or Jeep has to license/buy the rights from Bestop to have it made. Normally, Bestop would retain all rights to dictate things such as quality and so on to protect their product, and name.

Sunrider is a registered name - they can't use it without permission from Bestop - so, they are tangled in this for multiple reasons.

I know you said your a patient man, but that thing would get taken back quickly

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I know you said your a patient man, but that thing would get taken back quickly

And leave dozens of us, if not hundreds, with no resolution and the companies involved slipping buy and people hacking, grinding, tucking, to make an improperly fitting product fit.
The problem goes on forever and ever - and there is no alternative. I can't later go buy the same thing from a competing company. They have the market cornered

 

[Eagle22]

LOL - those latches are hardly "flimsy". They are solid as heck. Made differently, yes, but the strength will be the same - I'd bet on it. Not sure where you are getting "flimsy" from - there's no wiggle or wobble and they are nice and tight, no give at all.
Fabric actually looks the same to me as well, comparing multiple pictures.
Not sure where that's coming from.
This isn't a case of "knockoff" - it must be a licensed product, with Bestop's control, or Jeep would be sued, unable to use the term "Sunrider" as it's protected. You can bet Bestop would be all over that.

I guess we agree to disagree...maybe "flimsy" was a poor choice, but I've looked at the side by side photos of your "Mopar Sunrider" and my two "Bestop Sunriders" and to me, the construction, fabrication, finish, etc of your Mopar product looks cheaper than the Bestop product...and by your own admission...your's does not even fit! Both of my genuine Bestop Sunriders do fit on two separate Jeep model years.

Personally, I just think you've been too hard on Bestop, a quality company from my involvement with them. This seems to me to be Jeep/Mopar quality control problem - hmmm...has that ever happened before?

Tried to be helpful...spent a lot of time taking photos, etc because I've followed your posts since 2021 when I bought my Gladiator...have always appreciated your candor...I hope you can accept mine.

That's all I have to say...best of luck on your efforts to get satisfaction.

 

[Gatorized]

Which is interesting as the freedom panels drain forward without that diminishing clearance or gap because of the natural slop of the body shape, and slight rake they all have.
Take a JLU, for example - the freedom panels drain forward, but don't slope forward.
So really, that isn't necessary for drainage.
In fact, the freedom panels drain forward so very well, Jeep had to devise a solution to keep the water from running into the cabin when you opened the door - all of the water went forward off the front end of the drip rail.
The forward rake of the sunrider is thus, unnecessary. If the freedom panels of a level sitting JLU run the rain water forward with no rake or obvious change in the gap between it and the door, the sunrider can.

These drain fine - sunrider would too, with the even gap -

Large gap rear to front works great, water drains perfectly forward, gap is even all the way, and there's actually a good gap - the mucket and other seals aren't pinched at all.
Why does sunrider take a dive going forward? Can't be for water, or the freedom panels wouldn't drain forward like they do - making early JT and JLU owners complain about getting wet.

the slope may not be needed on the freedom panel - fiberglass may have a different flow rate/pattern that could not be replicated with the fabric of the sunrider, so they increased the slope of the rails.
none of which is relevant to you FITMENT issue… but the manufacturing specs by different suppliers may be the whole story. They had to build new molds to remove the logos and may have misread the B/P Or used all the mins and the stack-up tolerances didn’t hit the mark. Gotta get that bestop version mounted for comparison. I don’t think the Sunrider is a popular option in any area - I see very few on the road. But wouldn’t be without mine!

 

[Trollboogie]

I was always under the impression that Bestop manufactured the factory soft tops since the mid 80's and the Mopar Sunrider also. My JL has the same style of side rails (factory soft top )as my Sunrider. Same bolts, same bronze inserts and same style latches. No logo though.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Personally, I just think you've been too hard on Bestop, a quality company from my involvement with them. This seems to me to be Jeep/Mopar quality control problem - hmmm...has that ever happened before?

It's their product design, and, it has happened with their brand as well - but people have seen the videos where they say "oh, don't worry about that, just tuck the seal".

I've checked other forums, other posts, and videos - and some with the Bestop brand have fit issues.

I've brought this "to the top" so to speak and it happens to be MOPAR, however, I've watched people on Youtube install the originals and have issues with the seals and so on.

If you have a 2020 or even perhaps early 2021, you won't notice the issue since the gap doesn't matter on those years, it can come close to scraping the door and few will ever notice or care.
So we can't really consider anything prior to 2022 or an earlier one that has the TSB performed for water dripping into the cabin.

This is a combination of factors, perhaps even as we refer to it in the trade as a "stack-up of tolerances".

Bestop does have control over the design. Unless they totally let go of their patents and gave Jeep an open license - they should have control, and should be concerned about any fit or quality issues since their brand "Sunrider" is on it.
But especially since I have found people with their own version have fit issues as well.
Maybe you haven't - but I've seen more than just a couple who have.
It's like the cam issue - some have the problem, some don't. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I had the same problem. the rubber flap MUST go on the outside not behind the rail.
I had to grind the rail down close to the inside to allow room for the rubber flap to lay flat.
not sure what is different about my and yours from others that report no problems.
adjusting the rail up for clearance only allowed water in and still bunched up the flap.
what I did worked for me. YMMV

I forgot to ask - is yours a Bestop "brand" or the "Jeep brand" sunrider?

and by your own admission...your's does not even fit!

Fit can be different than overall quality. You can have something well made with quality materials - but miss on a spec - and since the MOPAR version is based on the Bestop version, which has also given some people fitment fits - we can't say "it's just the MOPAR version.
IT happens with both versions.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I was always under the impression that Bestop manufactured the factory soft tops since the mid 80's and the Mopar Sunrider also. My JL has the same style of side rails (factory soft top )as my Sunrider. Same bolts, same bronze inserts and same style latches. No logo though.

For all we know - it's very possible. We don't have data from people with new Bestop branded sunriders (bought in the past 12 months or so) on a 22 or later Jeep.
We're comparing older Bestop units to newer MOPAR units.
How about a 2025 Bestop sunrider on a 2025 Jeep
Saying an early build of the Bestop fits fine may be because things changed.

Still, I go back to - even those with the Bestop branded sunrider have shown the issue - they simply are told to ignore it, tuck the seals, etc. but I have to say - I don't think any of those are from 2025.

 

[heretic]

I forgot to ask - is yours a Bestop "brand" or the "Jeep brand" sunrider?

Bestop

Why it should not matter. Do you think there are (2) diff versions.
The Jeep one has to be just a rebranded product.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Hmmm...your latched even look flimsy in comparison to my Bestop hinges. Even the interior side of the fabric looks different on mine (I have the higher level twill) as does the leading edge that rests on the windscreen seal:

Sure is looking more and more like it is a knock-off product made for Jeep. Quality is not up to Bestop standards....I've purchased from them three times now...always quality and good engineering.

Does Jeep actually call it a "Sunrider"? I would think "Sunrider" would be proprietary to Bestop?

And if it's a knock-off...why is Bestop involved/interested...unless they sold the specs to Jeep, so Jeep could find a cheaper manufacturer?

Bestop makes these for Jeep.

 

[Eagle22]

Bestop makes these for Jeep.

If so…why would they make them cheaper, with poor finish, and don’t fit?

 

[WILDHOBO]

If so…why would they make them cheaper, with poor finish, and don’t fit?

No one knows that to be true. You’re leaping quite a bit.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Didn't take long to find several others with the same thing - and the response they got was - nothing.

Another Wrangler owner -

And here's what everyone has been wondering - Bestop says they do NOT make these for Jeep. (likely they don't even make their own, but that's a different animal)

Still, some of them ARE Bestop branded tops - so this is one case where it is not and they wash their hands of it.

And here's my proof it happens even with the Bestop branded units -

However, their response to that person is pure bullshit. That is NOT ok, it distorts the seal, ad in my case, it cuts the seal.
The person from Bestop even told me "that's not right".
So one of them is lying - one said "it's fine" and another said "it shouldn't do that".
Which is it.
And no, talking out of both sides like that, no, I'm not being hard on them.
They should give one clear answer. The seals are made that way on purpose, what has happened is that Bestop has sat back and ignored the fact their tops sit too low, made more evident by the fact that it distorts seals and totally defeats the Jeep water control system there.
Rather than fixing the issue they've had all along, but was just brought to the top by Jeep putting those seals on 22 and later Jeeps - they are not making any changes and telling people whatever the person at Bestop decides to say at that time.
They can't have it both ways.

Check it out - the picture above Bestop says is ok vs. the picture they sent me showing "this is how it should fit".

This is their "this is how it should fit" picture -exactly what they told me -

Another Bestop person told the other fellow, sending him this picture - this is ok, don't worry about it - and yet this goes back to 2020 where if you open the door you will get water dumped on you because that mucket can't function.

That's my problem with Bestop - one person says it's fine, another person says no, that's not fine and no, don't tuck the seals.
One of them is wrong. (the first one - it's not fine)

Bestop

Why it should not matter. Do you think there are (2) diff versions.
The Jeep one has to be just a rebranded product.

I was trying to gather data - information - for the naysayers who say that ONLY the Jeep version has this issue and the Bestop ones are fine.

I'm proving that both have problems, at least SOME of both.
Bestop isn't getting their stories straight.

Both branded versions have problems.

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