Supporting mods with a Supercharger?

[Einar]

Hello,
I am new to this forum. So I apologize in advance if this topic as been brought up many times before. But as I have been looking at the market with possible purchase of a Gladiator in mind.
And I was at first set on getting a diesel both because of the extra torque it offers and fuel economy and more heavy-duty transmission as my plan with it might be to go up to 40-44" tires. Now the more I read. I have started to become a bit less set on go with the diesel as it seems reliability is still not there in spite this being the 3 version of this engine. So I have started to consider possible go with the 3.6 gas engine and then add the Magnuson supercharger to it. As in the end the price difference on the used market of the diesel vs gas. Is close to the cost of the supercharger kit.

But as I have start to look into this Supercharged section. It seem to add a supercharger to this what seems to be pretty reliable gas engine ( at least in stock form ) that as been around for quite a few years by now. Is not all roses either. So now I hardly know which direction might be better to go with.

But I wanted to ask you guys. 2 questions. If the tune that comes from Magnuson is not all that good. What seems to be the go to option when it comes to aftermarket tune for this application? And what supporting mods are recommended to add with the supercharger both from a reliability and performance standpoint. What about adding headers for exp?

Thank you
Einar

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[Josh00333]

Well as a guy w a Maggie running their stock tune with no real issues at all....

Get the Diesel.

If you're looking at a new, 2022+, Gladiator there is no tune support, as of now, for them. You can't add a SC/Turbo etc.

If you look used, make sure it's a younger 21', see Dave's sticky post on top of this forum with how to spot the correct ECM, it's fairly easy.

I went SC over the Diesel due to at the time, the perception the SC would be more reliable. I read every thing I could and I found no issues or problems with a Maggie on the 3.6.

Well as time has moved forward that's changed, there are 6-7 blown motors just on page 1-2 of this forum alone.

I think the issue is the top end, vale train, of the 3.6 has assembly issues and it's flaws get exposed in the way it works with a SC.

That said, I love my truck and have no plans of replacing it. But I will be more on guard for valve train noise and may at 30k have them replace as a precaution. Ya expensive one but cheaper than a motor.

Diesel; The real only reliability issue I've seen is around the def system and well that's with every D out there. The Def system has been improved.

I didn't go D because the tow ratings and payload are lower than the Max Tow, and I use my truck as a tow rig. In addition there were a lot of reports of overheating (technically not but if it de-rates due to heat then it's to hot... ie overheated) when towing in hot climates. I live out west where it's hot and high in all the places I go.

All that; if I had to buy again I would go D over the SC if I read the forum today, and adj my tow set up to reflect that capacity change.

 

[Josh00333]

I guess I didn't answer your questions.

I have had 0 issues w the Maggie tune. Dave on this forum is probably the most knowable guy there is on the tuning of the 3.6. He has a tune he offers.

You'll need gears with 40-44" but I'm sure you know that.

As far as extras I would say no touchy. Tune's are finicky with things and changing, exhaust may change something up stream. Dave would be the guy to chat with on that.

 

[Einar]

Thank you for the reply, Very interesting to hear you perspective. as a SC owner. So you just like myself assumed that the 3.6 would stay reliability even with a SC as it has in general been proven to be so at least N/A. But as you mention that is looking to be more and more not the case long term with the add strain from the SC.
As for the diesel. I had seen something about oil leak issue . And that was a nightmare to fix. But you say, aside from the DEF system the 3gen ecodiesel has proven to be overall reliable so far for the most part.

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

If you’re weary of the reliability of the diesel, you should be VERY weary of the relatability of the supercharger. At least diesel comes with warranty (unless you’re looking at used out of warranty, in which case I’d be very concerned of throwing a supercharger on).

To what extent you can get warranty coverage with the supercharger…feels like uncharted territories. I’m biased, and I feel like I’m just the bearer of bad news, but supercharging the 3.6 is not for the faint of heart.

 

[Einar]

"supercharging the 3.6 is not for the faint of heart"!!!?. That doesn't sound very encouraging?
But I am not looking at either options from a warranty standpoint and the Gladiator would not be a daily driver. But as a dedicated off-roader/overlander. ( so not more then 10K miles year or so )

( The vehicle would be shipped to Iceland so out of any warranty zone anyway )

Of course the common logic says stock will always be more reliable then modified. But how I looked at the sugercharger setup was that the Magnuson is know in general for being very reliable supercharger and considering the low amount of boost that is being added to the engine as the kit is designed out of the box. And considering how reliable the 3.6 is N/A . I am quite surprised that it starts falling apart with only having 6 psi added to it. ( for exp the V6 in Tacoma's has stayed reliable for years and years with the Magnuson kit added on top )

As for the diesel, I would most likely be sending the PCM to MR tuning up in Canada. To have them add their stage 1 tune along with their trans tuning and shut off the EGR and DEF stuff.

So consider deactivating the EGR and DEF will only make the diesel more reliable and it comes stock with stronger transmission. I guess that would in spite of some shortcomings be the more sensible chose then to supercharge the gas engine. based on what I am hearing now.

Thanks guys for your replies

 

[Josh00333]

Oh hands down if I could do a diesel def delete in the states I would go diesel. Not even a question at that point.

 

[Einar]

What type of drop in fuel mileage can be expected at average with the supercharger?
Also I was surprised to see that the Pentastar engine has integrated exhaust manifolds! No wonder my original search for headers came up so short!
But has anyone added those AFE "downpipes"?
Everything that decreases backpressure will increase the power ( and most likely add reliability ) on a boosted engine.

 

[DAVECS2]

The biggest problem that faces the 3.6L at form and supercharging are the proliferation of operating systems and parts that come from Jeep. There are obviously issues being sorted out on the the 3.6L with variable lift technology. To date I have serviced over 350 variations of stock software. I HAVE SEEN OVER 7+ versions of camshafts and lifters and there are 4 + versions of throttle bodies. As far as I am concerned each Jeep is unique and has a 60 to 70 percent chance of success once you crack the engine for performance.

I was at the front of the pack with this charge, and the results I had with forced induction were absolutely favorable. As I shared my findings I began to realize the lessons learned could not be applied across rhe board. My days and nights were consumed with running various iterations of operating systems across my own Jeep to help people, until one day it was too much for my engine even with real time data and safe guards. A simple trip to get milk turned into a fiasco.

I think the 3.6L platform has potential, BUT........ there are issues that need solved and consistency that is needed to really get things rolling.

2020 early 2021 models have a fair chance of success. You need to run 5w-30 oil and have a WBO2 to monitor fuel air ratio. Cams will probably need replaced if they have not been already.

 

[Einar]

Thank you sir, for be willing to chime in and share a bit of your knowledge.

You mention a lot of interesting things.

#1
How puzzling is it for an engine that as been in production for so many years. That there seems to be still so many different combos of parts and operating systems going on with it?

#2
Why are the cams themselves prematurely wearing out? Does it have something to do with oil starvation or something of that nature? so is the "fix" maybe more like a temporary one?
I would have expected an issue with a variable valve timing system would have rather something to do with the camshaft phasers, then the cams themselves. Very interesting.

#3
What type of problem did you in the end experiencing with your own engine( 2020 model? ) and how many supercharged miles did it last? Do you still have your Gladiator?

#4
Do you still offer your tuning service and if so do you maybe offer today after all your past experience to have the PCM send to you for bench flashing?

#5
I saw in your own thread the videos that you had shared. I assume you were ( or are still ) running 37" tires. What type of fuel mileage did you see at average with the supercharger? Did/do you have 3.73 or 4.10 gearing?

#6
Have you tuned anyone that has added as well those AFE downpipes? If so did they seem to offer any gains?

Thank you again for be willing to share of your knowledge in my thread.
Einar

 

[DAVECS2]

Thank you sir, for be willing to chime in and share a bit of your knowledge.

You mention a lot of interesting things.

#1
How puzzling is it for an engine that as been in production for so many years. That there seems to be still so many different combos of parts and operating systems going on with it?

I do not have a good answer for this. I used to do work for Chrysler, and I have never seen anything like it. This engine is different from the previous engines starting in 2019. So while the 3.6L has been around, this version is significantly different.

#2
Why are the cams themselves prematurely wearing out? Does it have something to do with oil starvation or something of that nature? so is the "fix" maybe more like a temporary one?
I would have expected an issue with a variable valve timing system would have rather something to do with the camshaft phasers, then the cams themselves. Very interesting.

I think there are many people trying to answer this right now. The high lift portion of the cam is not roller, it is actually similar to a flat tappet cam. I have a box of cams I was requested to send to Web cams for analysis, have not done it yet. There are VVL solenoids that have no diagnostics if they get mechanically plugged or stuck on.

#3
What type of problem did you in the end experiencing with your own engine( 2020 model? ) and how many supercharged miles did it last? Do you still have your Gladiator

I put my supercharger on at just over 1000 miles. My truck now has 38000+ miles on it. I did a ton of development work and troubleshooting on my truck for everyone else's tunes. I just recently tuned a jeep with a Sprintex on it, and I lost a motor. I was running that tune to see if I could figure out what happened, and I lost a motor. My Gladiator is sitting in the driveway waiting for me to put a new motor in it.

#4
Do you still offer your tuning service and if so do you maybe offer today after all your past experience to have the PCM send to you for bench flashing?

I am not actively going after customers. I started charging because I was offering tons of product support and it was earing up my time. The product support stated becoming more than the tune stuff. I have troubleshoot cams, throttlebodies, Intake leaks, cam phaser solenoids, etc. And there is usually atheist 2 to 3 a week. Plus I currently have 8 different tunes depending on build date from 2018 to 2021. Every couple of weeks a new on seems to pop up and requires me to analyze hours of data and run tests on my own truck. I don't bench flash as I would need a while truck architecture for it to work right.

#5
I saw in your own thread the videos that you had shared. I assume you were ( or are still ) running 37" tires. What type of fuel mileage did you see at average with the supercharger? Did/do you have 3.73 or 4.10 gearing?

I am on 35s and I generally see anywhere from 13 to 15 mph.

#6
Have you tuned anyone that has added as well those AFE downpipes? If so did they seem to offer any gains?

The AFE pipes are no longer available, I would love to try them. Another fun fact about these engines are the CATs are a ceramic substrate, that require loads of engine temp to make them activate quickly, so they are right next to the head. Ceramic substraits and forced inductionnis a slippery slope. As FI is easier on the engine if you can do fuel over runs to cool the cylinder. If you don't to much the substrait clogs or melts. I had my tune working with the catalysts surviving, but one of my protection strategies dumps fuel to cool the cylinder when the engine starts detonating. Well when the high lift cam starts going south, this happens alot and eventually takes out the catalytic converter.

Thank you again for be willing to share of your knowledge in my thread.
Einar

I answered your questions just below each one. As you can read I am just kind of exhausted of this platform. I am to the point I just want a fun easy to maintain daily driver. I am over hearing and feeling every nuance of the engine and wondering is something wrong, is it OK to drive. Will it be ready to run my girls to practice.

At one time I thought I could make a tune that would make the supercharger plug and play. I have put 1000s of hours into trying to do so, but Jeep just keeps bringing their F game. I no longer think it is possible. I don't think a stock 3.6L will run exactly as intended for 100K it will run for a long time but I am willing to bet a large sum of money there are systems compromised and the ECM slowly adapts around them.

If you can swing it the 6.4L is a way more reliable easy going platform. I had the papers signed for the Durango version when I lost my motor and now I am sporting a 2005 Pathfinder.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

#1
How puzzling is it for an engine that as been in production for so many years. That there seems to be still so many different combos of parts and operating systems going on with it?

I do not have a good answer for this. I used to do work for Chrysler, and I have never seen anything like it. This engine is different from the previous engines starting in 2019. So while the 3.6L has been around, this version is significantly different.

I hope that many perspective jeep owners are able to read this. Most of the ones I have talked to in person think that this is the same motor form 2012 “tried and true”.

 

[cmb396]

It's early and my brain is still cloudy from celebrating Vols beating bama saturday, but I'll chime in.

Knock on wood, I have 6k+ miles on my 2020 magnusson gladiator running 39's. I have worked with Dave closely to get my tune dialed in to my driving style, and it now is 98% hiccup free. Runs great, pulls trailers nice, decent mpg, 15-16 (513 gears).
As far as supporing mods, I just put a corsa exhaust on, which did nothing but make it louder.
I bought a 3.6 over a diesel bc I wanted a Gobi color, and it was not avail in diesel until this year.

All that said, a friend has a diesel running 38's, and pulls his black series camper all over the place as he travels for work, and just stays in it. I have not been in the jeep, but he has the banks programmer and pedal commander, and absolutely raves about it.
He did have to upgrade his radiator due to heat issues, but other than that, it has been great according to him.

If i was buying now, I would buy a diesel, but I am too far vested into my 3.6 to start over.

 

[Einar]

I answered your questions just below each one. As you can read I am just kind of exhausted of this platform. I am to the point I just want a fun easy to maintain daily driver. I am over hearing and feeling every nuance of the engine and wondering is something wrong, is it OK to drive. Will it be ready to run my girls to practice.

At one time I thought I could make a tune that would make the supercharger plug and play. I have put 1000s of hours into trying to do so, but Jeep just keeps bringing their F game. I no longer think it is possible. I don't think a stock 3.6L will run exactly as intended for 100K it will run for a long time but I am willing to bet a large sum of money there are systems compromised and the ECM slowly adapts around them.

If you can swing it the 6.4L is a way more reliable easy going platform. I had the papers signed for the Durango version when I lost my motor and now I am sporting a 2005 Pathfinder.

Thank you again sir, for continue to be willing to share of your knowledge
Now, after all the headaches and time you have invested. In try to figure out this engine to the best of your abilities. Only to end up having to face the reality that this engine seems to have way to many issues going on with it. To make it worth the risk adding boost to it. And as well having end up now with your very own Gladiator with a blown engine. I am anything but surprised that you have become exhausted of this platform.

And I now fully understand, when guys were saying that adding a supercharger to this 3.6 pentastar engine is not for the faint of heart!

I guess to make a long story short. It is not worth the risk adding a supercharger to this current gas engine that is on offer in the Wrangler JL and the Gladiator. So in spite the diesel engine might not be either without it's own problems. It is nevertheless much more sensible choose( not to mention that it comes as well with a stronger transmission ) if there is interest for having something under the hood that can offer some decent level of torque not least if the plan is to modified for big tires.

And if you live in a part of the world you might get away with "still" having turned off both the EGR and DEF and turn the power up a bit in the way. I guess then the diesel makes even more of a sense than spending as much or more on a supercharger setup then the price difference is between the gas and the diesel model.

But what a shame it is that Jeep chose to put such a turd of an gas engine into the Wrangler/Gladiator. ( which I feel is by far ( engines aside ) the most sensible new vehicles on the market if the plan is to use and modify for off-road use.

Also when taking into consideration that the vast majority of the US domestic market chooses to go with gas powered engines in general. ( for exp if looked at the used Gladiator offering on "Cars.com" it is only around 5% of close to 5000 available for sale that are equipped with the diesel engine. That really says more then many words what American #1 chose of fuel is ) And also in consideration of how expensive these vehicles are of the showroom floor. And what they intend them to be capable of doing overall. I am surprised Jeep didn't think of offer a more solid gas engine then this one.

Thank you very much Dave for save me from venture on into the risky journey of supercharging a gas powered Gladiator.

 

[DAVECS2]

I have a brand new 500 mile take out and a Sprintex and Magnuson supercharger.

Currently I am planning on putting my jeep back to stock. I could be convinced to put it back supercharged if someone wanted it that way

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