Water in Transmission - what to repair

[Rusty PW]

Water and transmission fluid do not mix. It tuns into a foam once it goes through the pump. Once the mixture is foam. It does not hold pressure or lubricate. So you have no pressure to hold the clutch plates together, causing slippage. And no lubrication to cool the plates. They overheat and then the friction material starts to flake off.

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[Blade1668]

BTW do you remember what temperature water boils and starts to turn in to steam? Around 212° or so at ambient pressure, now in the engine cooling system it is resisted by pressure cap and hoses, hose clamps not just seals. If I got to see this thread Friday I could go snap some pictures of what happens when ATF is spun with water. It turns into a thick cream like stuff, adding bulk to itself double the amount due to bubbles. I seen that personally a few days ago, in a 231J T-case, fluid change and refill then ran for few miles to "mix up and drain again. That's going to be done probably a few more times, second time it looked like milk with strawberry syrup in it. The first draining took a few hours to drain,second time was faster. I left it draining a hour or so angled toward drain plug hole. On second gallon of ATF now, that one holds 1.1-1.5 qt of fluid. The luck with it is no clutch packs or valve body's, just planetary gear set, gears on shafts and few other simple components. So drain, flush, refill a few times might not have a long term problem on it with any.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

BTW do you remember what temperature water boils and starts to turn in to steam? Around 212° or so at ambient pressure, now in the engine cooling system it is resisted by pressure cap and hoses, hose clamps not just seals. If I got to see this thread Friday I could go snap some pictures of what happens when ATF is spun with water. It turns into a thick cream like stuff, adding bulk to itself double the amount due to bubbles. I seen that personally a few days ago, in a 231J T-case, fluid change and refill then ran for few miles to "mix up and drain again. That's going to be done probably a few more times, second time it looked like milk with strawberry syrup in it. The first draining took a few hours to drain,second time was faster. I left it draining a hour or so angled toward drain plug hole. On second gallon of ATF now, that one holds 1.1-1.5 qt of fluid. The luck with it is no clutch packs or valve body's, just planetary gear set, gears on shafts and few other simple components. So drain, flush, refill a few times might not have a long term problem on it with any.

Like melted strawberry ice cream, but not as tasty.

Another way to look at what happens - for the transmission temperature to read 200, it would take some of the parts to be over that temperature to heat the fluid to that temperature, so for a given transmission temperature reading on the dash, it's the minimum temperatures in that transmission. Some places will see higher temperatures due to slippage during engaging or disengaging, pressures, the pressures of the bearings on the fluid and so on.
So for a 200 degree transmission, there are likely parts over that. Let in water a little at a time (even with the vent apart, it's not "rushing in" but more like you were peeing into it.
Small amounts of water hitting hot parts will boil - steam. The rest will mix with the fluid and form a pretty cool looking foamy mess.
Making it worse - people say "oil and water don't mix" - yeah, they can. It's called an emulsion. Hot parts spinning a fair speed in there literally mix the ATF and water into an emulsion - and the water won't soon separate out of it. It will stay that way for some time.
So to get it really clean - it's got to come apart.
or - you do several times of draining and refilling and hope that there's still not some foam or emulsion hanging around in there to do some dastardly deed a few days later.
Transfer cases are easy compared to a modern 8 speed transmission.
I'd not hesitate to do the drain/fill/drive/drain/fill/drive bit on an older transfer case.
A SelecTrac - meh, not so sure.

 

[Blade1668]

Like melted strawberry ice cream, but not as tasty.

Another way to look at what happens - for the transmission temperature to read 200, it would take some of the parts to be over that temperature to heat the fluid to that temperature, so for a given transmission temperature reading on the dash, it's the minimum temperatures in that transmission. Some places will see higher temperatures due to slippage during engaging or disengaging, pressures, the pressures of the bearings on the fluid and so on.
So for a 200 degree transmission, there are likely parts over that. Let in water a little at a time (even with the vent apart, it's not "rushing in" but more like you were peeing into it.
Small amounts of water hitting hot parts will boil - steam. The rest will mix with the fluid and form a pretty cool looking foamy mess.
Making it worse - people say "oil and water don't mix" - yeah, they can. It's called an emulsion. Hot parts spinning a fair speed in there literally mix the ATF and water into an emulsion - and the water won't soon separate out of it. It will stay that way for some time.
So to get it really clean - it's got to come apart.
or - you do several times of draining and refilling and hope that there's still not some foam or emulsion hanging around in there to do some dastardly deed a few days later.
Transfer cases are easy compared to a modern 8 speed transmission.
I'd not hesitate to do the drain/fill/drive/drain/fill/drive bit on an older transfer case.
A SelecTrac - meh, not so sure.

Definitely can mix. I've got 3.5 quarts to prove that. it might of had a slight reddish tint. 2nd drain, fill, short drive, drain fluid was. Batch #2 in with part of first draining, it was riding on surface until I moved to where I could get a picture.

FYI to anyone who looks, this was from a 231J T-case not transmission a transmission would be toast.. many Transfer cases can survive this as long as changed and flushed a few times and refilled. Not a recommendation though. ?
Found dent in rear driveshaft too. Don't remember when or how unless it was during or after a rain storm that passed though awhile back. The rain saturated area the over weight vehicles speeding down beat up the road to a point it looked more like one of the roads in Iraq in 03-04. Plastered with bomb craters.

 

[Blade1668]

Like melted strawberry ice cream, but not as tasty.
A SelecTrac - meh, not so sure.
[/QUOQUOTE]

I figured you would "like that picture"

 

[Lost1wing]

If I had any idea of trying to save this transmission, I'd be on my third flush by now. I'd be out the $ for the fluid and some time. Then send it out for rebuild. Maybe in a few months! Weeks?

Just do something and report back so we all can see who wins the lottery.

I'm hoping it works out for you!

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