Toe in VS Toe Out

[Rusty PW]

Longacre toe plates.

https://www.longacreracing.com/shop.aspx?itemid=2445&prodid=7216&pagetitle=Deluxe-Toe-Plates-(pair)

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[ShadowsPapa]

Longacre toe plates.

https://www.longacreracing.com/shop.aspx?itemid=2445&prodid=7216&pagetitle=Deluxe-Toe-Plates-(pair)

Those are clever - kickout on the bottom they say is "camber" but think of how a tire bulges at the bottom, those might clear that bulge.

 

[Free2roam]

Reviving:

I did a couple of minor changes recently, and my steering wheel center ended up slightly off again.
So while I was checking that I decided to once again give toe in another shot at redemption.
Toed in by .001 mm at the highest points I could get with the digital tape (see pics in first post) , and we took a 90 mile round trip yesterday. Half of that trip was with 600 pounds of fertilizer in the bed, and half empty.

Immediately, I could sense the differences in the feel and the ride.
Winds were brisk, but not terrible. Maybe 7-8 mph, with 12 mph gusts.
Still, I could feel the winds trying to move me around on the highway, and I found myself applying much more steering input.
It tracked SLIGHTLY better with the load in the bed, which is to be expected.


Today I went back to .001 m toe out.
Same highway, but today the winds are 15-20 with gusts 30-35.
STEADY AS A ROCK.
No drift and minimal input.
In fact, when I came out of the garage and was going up the steps into the house, a gust hit me and I had to make a correction on the stairs. ?

Everything else is right and tight. I just did my torque checks not 100 miles ago.

Argue away, toe in proponents, but all I'm saying is this.
It costs nothing to try, and you may even like the results.

Queue the scientists ?

My question is .001? That's a big ass set of calipers. .01 is even hard to measure. Even .1 mm is 0.0039370079 inches.

 

[Lunentucker]

My question is .001? That's a big ass set of calipers. .01 is even hard to measure. Even .1 mm is 0.0039370079 inches.

Thought I had corrected that. .001 meter (1 mm)

 

[Lunentucker]

Longacre toe plates.

https://www.longacreracing.com/shop.aspx?itemid=2445&prodid=7216&pagetitle=Deluxe-Toe-Plates-(pair)

I would probably do these for much less money.
Pulling the wheels off isn't a big deal at all.
Might have to trim out clearance for the calipers.

https://www.amazon.com/Lupar-Alignment-Stainless-Wall-Mounted-Excluding/dp/B0CND1N2RM/

 

[Rusty PW]

I would probably do these for much less money.
Pulling the wheels off isn't a big deal at all.
Might have to trim out clearance for the calipers.

https://www.amazon.com/Lupar-Alignment-Stainless-Wall-Mounted-Excluding/dp/B0CND1N2RM/

They make cheaper plates.

https://www.longacreracing.com/shop...0270&pagetitle=Toe-Plates-with-Magnets-(pair)

 

[gearhead22]

Can anyone confirm what toe is measured from.

Say 1/8” toe in is your desired setting. Is this measured as 1/8” toe in from setting the tire at neutral or zero toe and then adjusting the front in by 1/8”?

or is it measured as 1/8” toe in difference from the back of the tire measurement?

my dilemma is 1/8” toe in measure from zero would equate to 1/4” difference from the front to rear of the tire.

And obviously 1/8” toe in difference from the rear of the tire to the front would only be 1/8” total difference.

just not sure where this toe inch measurement is measured from.

I assume difference from front to rear as there are plates people make and use to measure it and they measurement points are on each end of the plate.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Can anyone confirm what toe is measured from.

Say 1/8” toe in is your desired setting. Is this measured as 1/8” toe in from setting the tire at neutral or zero toe and then adjusting the front in by 1/8”?

or is it measured as 1/8” toe in difference from the back of the tire measurement?

my dilemma is 1/8” toe in measure from zero would equate to 1/4” difference from the front to rear of the tire.

And obviously 1/8” toe in difference from the rear of the tire to the front would only be 1/8” total difference.

just not sure where this toe inch measurement is measured from.

I assume difference from front to rear as there are plates people make and use to measure it and they measurement points are on each end of the plate.

Plates not needed. It's the difference in distance between the tires at the front vs. the rear.

 

[Old Dogger]

1/16 to 1/8 is the normal that most front-end alignment shops use.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Toe-in/toe-out needs will vary with a few things - if it's stock use stock numbers. If you change the wheels out, use spacers, much taller tires, etc. - you may have to change that, even to toe-out.

The specs on cars and trucks vary for good reason! It's geometry, and there's no "one-setting-fits-all", just what's good to start with on stock vehicles.

Start at the stock settings if the vehicle is stock or mostly stock and go from there. If it's wrong, you'll get a saw-tooth pattern across the face of the tires.

Working doing alignments and brakes for money for college, I got to read tires pretty well. (also sold tires)

 

[Zachanadandy]

I'm with the OP from real world trial and error. Maybe it's only because of the much larger tires but I find the Jeeps track straighter and handle just as well with a slight toe out. As he said, it's a free mod and 5 minutes to try it and see what YOU prefer. 2 decades and more than 10 lifted Jeeps and I always end up with a slight toe out as what feels best to me. I don't care what the experts say or the why. It sounds like steersmarts did the same and came to the same conclusion. The idea that is suddenly going to "get dangerous" when cornering is lost on me. I routinely drift the mojave around corners in the dirt at freeway speeds. I'll take mountain pass corners labeled at 50-55mph without turning off the cruise control that's set at 80mph. Tracks better and handles the same in my experience. Would it be unstable if you toed out by a half inch or more? Maybe but that's irrelevant.

 

[gearhead22]

Here's another Internet expert saying toe out to the edge of the specs.

Looking back on an old thread here. Not sure if this was mentioned in any other posts but what he’s showing isn’t true toe out. It’s “out” when compared to the recommended toe in setting from factory because it’s less positive and closer to zero. But don’t be fooled, it’s still considered toe in in as he shows when he’s done. Positive toe degrees is still toe in, which he is even though he adjusted it. If it showed negative degrees that’s true toe out. He’s approximately .10 degrees total toe in which would be close to the equivalent of 1/16” toe in which results in .125-.13 degrees total toe in.

 

[gearhead22]

I decided to try toe out as opposed to the toe in I’ve been running. I ended up with 3/32” toe out as opposed to the 1/16” toe in I had been running. I noticed a few things pretty quickly. There’s a road I travel daily that has a decent crown to it. Prior, to go straight down the road, it required me to position steering wheel to be quite a bit left as the crown wanted to pull me right (also had to overcome the sloppy jeep steering). With toe out, the jeep tracks much straighter down that road. The steering wheel requires only a slight shift to the left. Also the steering feels a little more responsive in the sense that smaller movements result it direction change where as before I would need to turn the wheel more to get the same response. Driving down the highway feels similar, might track slightly better. I don’t notice any negatives, and I think overall it just feels better. I will keep it like this for some time and see what my long term experience is.

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