Torque Front lower control arm

[WILDHOBO]

You can put both front and rear axles on stands, level

So you now need to fight with four jack stands? Fun. Why not just do it with it on the ground? It’s easier. I did it yesterday.

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[ShadowsPapa]

I get that, but the springs would have been more compressed than when sitting level with the rear axle.

Why would they? Same weight on the same springs.
How do I know? Because when I measure my truck's "lift" or "height", I measure from the center of the hub to the fender flare.

For checking torque,…maybe some loosen up a bit over time so before grabbing a torque bar and checking, do you loosen a bit before tightening to spec?

Not usually. It depends on the age of fastener and circumstances.
If it has loosened up over time, then setting your torque wrench to the torque spec and checking - if it's loose you'll get more turn out of it.
I don't have a hard fast rule on that. I take each situation by itself - for suspension and very high numbers, I may do that. For engine parts, transmission parts, lug nuts, etc. - generally not.

Be aware that for SOME parts of SOME vehicles, there are "torque to" specs and "checking torque" numbers.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Why would they? Same weight on the same springs.
How do I know? Because when I measure my truck's "lift" or "height", I measure from the center of the hub to the fender flare.



Not usually. It depends on the age of fastener and circumstances.
If it has loosened up over time, then setting your torque wrench to the torque spec and checking - if it's loose you'll get more turn out of it.
I don't have a hard fast rule on that. I take each situation by itself - for suspension and very high numbers, I may do that. For engine parts, transmission parts, lug nuts, etc. - generally not.

Be aware that for SOME parts of SOME vehicles, there are "torque to" specs and "checking torque" numbers.

Because the pressure on the springs isn’t even. Drive your front end onto a curb or a rock. Its suspension will be more compressed than when it’s level. Ask me how I know.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If I'm checking for proper torque I'll loosen it a bit first. That way I know it's not too tight.

If someone ELSE has worked on something - yeah, for sure. Trust but verify.
If it's factory and there's no problems, no issues, no, I don't. I'll check to make sure it's not looser than spec, but don't usually loosen first for suspension parts, again.......... depending.
I guess 50 years have given me thousands of situations to pull from and decide each new situation based on that.
But if someone else has worked on it - especially with certain parts, heck yeah. Too many times something has come back WAAAY over tight.

 

[jav_eee]

On a sort of related note, I bought a Milwaukee 1/2 drive fuel impact this week that claims 1000 ft lbs of torque going in and 1400 ft lbs going out. Hell that would Twist those big control arm bolts off!! Haven't used it yet.

no it won’t. I have the same one. Didn’t work.

 

[jav_eee]

Because the pressure on the springs isn’t even. Drive your front end onto a curb or a rock. Its suspension will be more compressed than when it’s level. Ask me how I know.

how Is it not even if the front axle has 2 stands under it at either end?

 

[WILDHOBO]

how Is it not even if the front axle has 2 stands under it at either end?

If the front is on stands, and the rear isn’t, the angles of gravity change the force on the springs. Just like going up a hill or over an obstacle. It’s fine if both axles are on stands, but then you’ve done more work then is necessary. It’s just easy to leave them loose, lower it, then tighten. Done. I replaced two control arms yesterday. No jacks needed. Left it on the ground. Super easy.

 

[jav_eee]

If the front is on stands, and the rear isn’t, the angles of gravity change the force on the springs. Just like going up a hill or over an obstacle. It’s fine if both axles are on stands, but then you’ve done more work then is necessary. It’s just easy to leave them loose, lower it, then tighten. Done. I replaced two control arms yesterday. No jacks needed. Left it on the ground. Super easy.

Leaving the front axle on the ground didn’t give me enough room to tighten them with the breaker bar I was using.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So you now need to fight with four jack stands? Fun. Why not just do it with it on the ground? It’s easier. I did it yesterday.

Depends on your age, weight and health.

Besides, I know it's the same. Why? Because I just proved it - you can look around the forum as I am sure I've posted the numbers from after my last spring swap.
The truck settled to about 22.75" to 22.625" depending on fuel, whether or not I jounce the front by shoving down on the front bumper a few times, or whatever, but it's almost always in that range.
So, I put it on stands - just the front.
I made sure the stands were on a semi-level part of the garage floor (it slopes for drainage, but not toward the drain these days LOL)
A stand under each end of the front axle, with the exact same number of "notches" showing on each end.
I then measured from the center of each hub to the fender flare to the exact same place on the black trim that I always measure to and guess what I got........ yeah, the same numbers as above.
I let it down again - took it off the stands, jounced it again, and measured again. Within 1/8" of the original measurements. And that 1/8" can be just how the thing settles. Jounce it again and it might be almost 1/8" different.
Anyway, 22.75" with tires on the floor, 22.75" with axle on the stands (oh, I did jounce it once I got it on the stands!)

Left side - count the notches -

Right side - count the notches - (so the axle was supported evenly on each end)

So why did I do this? Because it took a whopping 5 minutes. And I could have done the rear in less time as I can jack it up more in the center and slip stands under it in less time.

So in less than 10 minutes, you can have more room to work and tighten those bolts to specs.

At 200 pounds (mostly belly, it used to be shoulders and upper arm muscles but those days are gone. I could lift an engine block onto my bench - a cast iron engine block and lower a transmission without a jack) and with arthritis, and having had my left bicep reattached to the bone a few years ago, I can no longer kill grizzly bears with my bare hands and need a bit more space to work.
Jacks well placed under the front will get you where you need to be for torquing those bolts and if you feel that it's off by .125" then raise the rear a bit. But if you don't lift the front end 6", there won't be appreciable weight shift to mess things up. It's weight shift that's the one and only reason the suspension could be compressed or RELAXED if you raise the front only. The weight shifts to the rear of the truck lightening up the front a bit. The higher you lift the front only, the more weight shifts to the rear causing the front to be lighter. Raise it just enough, and the weight shift is minimal. Like in my example above - it didn't change my measurements at all. And if you are concerned about 1/8" - keep in mind things settle, or relax, at least that much depending on the fuel you have or your own weight in the truck. So don't get crazed over .125"

 

[WILDHOBO]

Leaving the front axle on the ground didn’t give me enough room to tighten them with the breaker bar I was using.

I do have a large long torque wrench, and I start them with my impact, so I don’t need to use my body for most of it. Adding a pipe to a breaker bar helps.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Leaving the front axle on the ground didn’t give me enough room to tighten them with the breaker bar I was using.

Check my recent post - as long as you don't lift the front way up, you will be fine. I just did a 5 minute test that proved it.
Weight shift is the only thing that can impact that height. If you lift it high enough, the weight is shifted to the rear, relaxing the front a bit. Gravity doesn't move anything, springs don't move due to gravity. The center of gravity of the truck shifts very slightly to the rear. VERY slightly if you only raise it a couple of inches.
You can fill the gas tank and make more of an impact than lifting the front end 2" with stands

 

[WILDHOBO]

Depends on your age, weight and health.

Besides, I know it's the same. Why? Because I just proved it - you can look around the forum as I am sure I've posted the numbers from after my last spring swap.
The truck settled to about 22.75" to 22.625" depending on fuel, whether or not I jounce the front by shoving down on the front bumper a few times, or whatever, but it's almost always in that range.
So, I put it on stands - just the front.
I made sure the stands were on a semi-level part of the garage floor (it slopes for drainage, but not toward the drain these days LOL)
A stand under each end of the front axle, with the exact same number of "notches" showing on each end.
I then measured from the center of each hub to the fender flare to the exact same place on the black trim that I always measure to and guess what I got........ yeah, the same numbers as above.
I let it down again - took it off the stands, jounced it again, and measured again. Within 1/8" of the original measurements. And that 1/8" can be just how the thing settles. Jounce it again and it might be almost 1/8" different.
Anyway, 22.75" with tires on the floor, 22.75" with axle on the stands (oh, I did jounce it once I got it on the stands!)

Left side - count the notches -

Right side - count the notches - (so the axle was supported evenly on each end)

So why did I do this? Because it took a whopping 5 minutes. And I could have done the rear in less time as I can jack it up more in the center and slip stands under it in less time.

So in less than 10 minutes, you can have more room to work and tighten those bolts to specs.

At 200 pounds (mostly belly, it used to be shoulders and upper arm muscles but those days are gone. I could lift an engine block onto my bench - a cast iron engine block and lower a transmission without a jack) and with arthritis, and having had my left bicep reattached to the bone a few years ago, I can no longer kill grizzly bears with my bare hands and need a bit more space to work.
Jacks well placed under the front will get you where you need to be for torquing those bolts and if you feel that it's off by .125" then raise the rear a bit. But if you don't lift the front end 6", there won't be appreciable weight shift to mess things up. It's weight shift that's the one and only reason the suspension could be compressed or RELAXED if you raise the front only. The weight shifts to the rear of the truck lightening up the front a bit. The higher you lift the front only, the more weight shifts to the rear causing the front to be lighter. Raise it just enough, and the weight shift is minimal. Like in my example above - it didn't change my measurements at all. And if you are concerned about 1/8" - keep in mind things settle, or relax, at least that much depending on the fuel you have or your own weight in the truck. So don't get crazed over .125"

So you agree. If you lift it enough, the weight shifts. Just lifting it an inch doesn’t give you enough extra room to matter. Most people with smaller tires are looking for that 6”. I can say from experience, that you have plenty of room with it on the ground, with a mild lift and 37’s in my case. And I never pulled the stands out of the cabinet. Two LCA’s on loose, then tightened both. I’ll do the same later today with front UCA’s. Parking brake and front wheel chocks.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I do have a large long torque wrench, and I start them with my impact, so I don’t need to use my body for most of it. Adding a pipe to a breaker bar helps.

Your truck is lifted more than many, way more than mine for sure. You have an impact -many won't have that advantage. Many are also working with tools they have.

I've just proven on my own truck that there wasn't a difference by raising mine and putting it evenly on stands - gaining a good 2" of height to work under the truck.
So why would anyone worry about it?
Empty gas tank, full gas tank, what's in the truck, all of that makes more difference than a pair of stands holding it 2" or even 3" off the ground. We might be talking 0.125" difference and weather than impact things that much as can the fuel load.
I've never seen mine change any appreciable amount by having the front on stands. I've swapped springs twice under my 2020, and 2 times under my 2022 already.
And today, I got curious - just how much weight shift is there by lifting only the front.
I raised it about 2" and didn't see a difference. It was the same on stands as it was before, and when I set it down and jounced it again, I got the same measurement.
If you are within 0.125 (1/8" for the math impaired) you are far less than adding a person or a tank of fuel or running it empty.
Your truck's height varies that much almost daily.
I know mine does. I can drive it, park it in the same spot and see almost 0.125" difference from one day to the next. Normal stuff. Not to worry.

 

[bleda2002]

Get metal cloak (or rock crawler adevnture or teraflex or) arms, then you can torque in the air, on the ground, up a tree, down a ravine, under water, upside down doesn't matter since the bushing rotates within the housing if it binds.

Edit: you can also torque with a goat, in a moat, wearing a coat, or towing a boat, just in case you were wondering about any of those situations.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So you agree. If you lift it enough, the weight shifts. Just lifting it an inch doesn’t give you enough extra room to matter. Most people with smaller tires are looking for that 6”. I can say from experience, that you have plenty of room with it on the ground, with a mild lift and 37’s in my case. And I never pulled the stands out of the cabinet. Two LCA’s on loose, then tightened both. I’ll do the same later today with front UCA’s. Parking brake and front wheel chocks.

Sure, if you jack it up high and support it with stands near the top of their height, it does shift weight to the rear - but you'd have to raise it high. Mine is going to be worse because I have a heck of a lot of weight on the front of mine. So mine would shift a whole lot more. Few others have all of the weight that I run in the front. A stock weight front end won't shift weight to the rear as much as mine will.

So you know that people are looking for 6" to get that extra space?
Gee, not me - I've found that 2 or 3" is plenty.
I'd bet that most don't "need" that extra 6" - they just do it.
You are talking big tires, and a lift. So your truck already sits a lot higher than those running a MOPAR 2" lift with 35s - or those simply wanting to install the lower MOPAR control arms.
I have stock diameter tires, so I can say - no, we aren't looking for 6". We're looking for 2 or 3, at least that's all I needed.
My truck is on 32.2" tires, with a 1.675" lift (depending on the day I measure it) and I didn't lift mine any 6" to get the job done. The stands in the picture is what I had used a couple of times and they are almost as high as they'll go.
Since putting stands under mine this AM, raising it 2" and seeing no difference, you can expect that 4" isn't going to matter unless you are so very very anal or OCD that it can't change a little bit - and if that's the case, you'd better keep that fuel tank always at the exact same level every hour of every day because that fuel tank can make over 1/8" difference in how the truck sits. I've recorded measurements over time and made notes "tank full" or "tank empty" and was seeing a measurable difference just on fuel level.

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