ShadowsPapa

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So I have to drive 5mph on my 1.5 mile long dirt driveway? It is littered with mud puddles, potholes etc and when it snows if I don't haul ass i'm guaranteed to get stuck.The road is junk most of the winter. My rule for my wife and kids is drive the road and no lolly gagging until you get to the gate, because if you idle it or put around and don't have momentum its going to take the excavator to get you out if you spin out or worse if you slide off sideways and blow through the fence. I had to use my 305 Cat this morning to fix the side of my culvert as it was holding water 6" deep against it and its been muddy and frozen only in the mornings due to a warmer then normal January so the ground isnt frozen all day and its getting worse from the daily freeze / thaw so I just bladed it out again. I already go to the car wash 2 times a week.

Reminder, I have (2) jeep gladiators my daughters sport and a Mojave. The Mojave def handles the bumps better.

OP hope your lawsuit is in motion,
Again not apples to apples. The water was deep and long and I bet still no one has used the video to determine speed. A muddy road is not the same as what was done here.

I also find it crazy that any attorney would even talk about this without knowing all of the facts. It's like a psychologist diagnosing someone as having certain conditions never having met or talked to them personally - and alone.
Or an MD to diagnose "hey, it's the flu" and never done any testing other than some video chat.

We still don't have ALL facts, nor do we know what Jeep is doing or would do behind the scenes having ALL of the information themselves.
It's still a she said with no "he said".

Mucky, muddy things you can get stuck on are far different than what was driven through, and "keep going" isn't the same as the deliberate speed that was apparent in the video.
Mud vs. splashing over the roof silty, sandy, muddy water........... different.
Mud where I live is absolutely different than mud were others here live, too. And the time of year varies. Spring and fall you can get 4x4 tractors stuck where you can drive through in mid-summer because here the soil is packed by driving rains, but in the spring, you'll slid down that hill with no control and you'll have to wait to get it pulled out unless you have very long chains.





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mstrav73

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Its amazing not one person gives a rats about the ultimate answer regardless of if you are for or against voiding of the warranty. Does nobody really want to actually see what and how this caused the failure and how did it get into an area that is supposed to be protected? Nobody wants to know exactly how the mud / water got in there and is there possibly a splash guard that would have helped, or is there something in there that acted as a trap to not let it flash off the alternator or harness where the short occurred? Does nobody think that maybe there was an issue day one and this just made it worse?
 
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Ole Cowboy

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So my rear locker sensor going out in November (which is a super common problem) is because I went through mud in July??
There is a reason WHY I don't own a Gladiator (my wife does) and a reason why I got rid of my Hard Rock Rubicon.

3 guesses and the first 2 don't even count. Here is a HINT, see attached pic. That is me driving across a RAGGING river to save a man and his jeep, I had to roll up the windows as the water was coming in over the window frame, I had water above my belly button and my coffee cup was floating in the Jeep. Side note: That WARN 9.5 Ti Winch, did full 100+ ft pull UNDER water pulling him to safety.

WHY? Electronics!

You want to blast thru mud, water over window frame, get an ole YJ or TJ, after that and all you are going to do is have issues wet & muddy is no longer the Jeeps playground...

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ShadowsPapa

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Its amazing not one person gives a rats about the ultimate answer regardless of if you are for or against voiding of the warranty. Does nobody really want to actually see what and how this caused the failure and how did it get into an area that is supposed to be protected? Nobody wants to now exactly how the mud / water got in there and is there possibly a splash guard that would have helped, or is there something in there that acted as a trap to not let it flash off the alternator or harness where the short occurred? Does nobody think that maybe there was an issue day one and this just made it worse?
As an automotive professional, experienced, trained, and still doing auto-electric restoration, etc. - yeah, but there's no way we will ever know. Sure, I'd love to have had HANDS-ON that alternator to inspect it, some forensics, diagnostics, not simply say "it's not working, let's replace it". I never do that, never have. Even things sent to me for restoration I will often photograph, make notes, even test things before disassembly.
But there isn't a single thing anyone can do now. The OP has no clue, the dealership I'm sure has long since let the part go out either for reman or warranty inspection by Jeep.
Short? Unlikely. You can get these VERY wet and not destroy them - but this wasn't just plain water on a rainy night blacktop highway splashed up in there.
I know you can get them wet because - well, many of us PRESSURE WASH our engines and engine bay. I do. I pressure washed my entire engine and engine bay before the last show I had my car in - people commented you could eat off the engine, intake or even the exhaust pipes.
I gave it no mercy. I washed it - then rinsed (that's the KEY - RINSE!! plain clean water) and then I started it -still wet.
My other cars - the alternator is mounted down low, it sits above the crankshaft pulley but below the water pump pulley - off to the right in between the two.
Shielding? None, zip, nuttin'. You look at the alternator and you see pavement.
But unless you are really dumb with 'em, all they'll get is wet, not sandy, gritty, no mud, no salt spray. Water, maybe dirty water, but that's it. Nothing that would look like the mud and filth in the OP's picture/video.
Clues as to what really happened can be found in the fact that originally, they were talking radiator. Wow, sounds like maybe it was really plugged up with muck or something. Another dealer, no, but the first, yeah - so how does a radiator get mucked up that bad - don't concentrate on the alternator so much, clues lie elsewhere. It's a far far bigger picture, you have to treat it like a puzzle, a problem to solve, a who-dun-it and read beyond the post and pictures.
Based on video, pictures, and the comments on radiator as well as alternator - those things took a hell of a hit.

ANYTHING anyone says here is pure 100% unadulterated speculation, opinion, some based on logic, some on emotion, I like to think mine is based at least in part on experience and skill.
No one here knows all the facts and that's the truth of it.

If I were an ornery dealer - i could say - geesh, this thing was in a battle - signs of water and muck waaay up high, radiator plugged, not running, not charging - likely many other electrical bugs will show up soon. I'd say it looks like it has been sitting next to the mississippi in the floods of 93.
But then - I did not see the truck, I am basing it off what I do know, as limited as what's been presented to us.
 

Riccochet

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I don't know of a single vehicle where the alternator is "protected". It's usually mounted up high, but that doesn't protect it. Water itself won't kill an alternator. Dirt, metallic and magnetic material, gravel will.

The other problem with running through water at speed is water can make it in to your air box. Your engine being an air pump, and there being negative pressure inside the air box, it's not hard for the engine to start ingesting water. Water doesn't burn or compress. Usually results in a hydrolocked engine. Numerous videos on youtube of people running at speed through 12" of water and hydrolocking the engine. Doesn't take much, few tablespoons in a cylinder will nuke it.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I don't know of a single vehicle where the alternator is "protected". It's usually mounted up high, but that doesn't protect it. Water itself won't kill an alternator. Dirt, metallic and magnetic material, gravel will.

The other problem with running through water at speed is water can make it in to your air box. Your engine being an air pump, and there being negative pressure inside the air box, it's not hard for the engine to start ingesting water. Water doesn't burn or compress. Usually results in a hydrolocked engine. Numerous videos on youtube of people running at speed through 12" of water and hydrolocking the engine. Doesn't take much, few tablespoons in a cylinder will nuke it.
Yup. Found out the hard way with my 73 - dual quads with the air filters sticking up through the hood. Parked it under our big maple tree. Hey, it was a nice day, no chance of rain, supposed to be a nice evening, garage was full of stuff.
Next morning found it had rained about 5" in an hour............ DANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I went out and carefully saw if the engine would crank - it moved a tad and I could tell so I let go of the key.
I pulled the plugs out, disconnected the coil and cranked it over a bit and huge streams of water went shooting over both fenders.
I changed the oil AND filter 3 times. Changed it once, ran it about 15 seconds or so, changed it again, ran it a minute or so, changed it again, looked fine then, no white, no foam, no condensation in the oil fill tube or elsewhere.
 

mstrav73

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If Jeep and the dealer would have just taken this as a chance to learn if there is an issue they could have determined if the debris was pulled from the radiator, thrown by the fan, slung up from the bottom, or ? This would def help to make sure the rest of us don't need to worry.

Again, you city slickers don't give a rats as you don't live on dirt roads and a large portion of you don't live in snow country where mud, slush, snow water are a real daily issue 4-5 months a year.

Papa is not the only seasoned vet mechanic on this forum like he thinks and as a mechanic, car builder, motorhead, engine builder, sxs owner, and all around off-road junky, I would really like to find the exact problem so the rest of us can decide if we need to fab a shield or plate to keep this from happening. My daughter drives one of these daily here in the NW and I def don't want her to have an issue.

What if it actually rattled a cable loose, plug or wire came off that was loose from factory? Was it actually the alternator or the voltage reg? Did his battery get drenched and cause the truck to shut off? Maybe the starter hung up because the auto start tried to engage and shorted something out? I mean it goes on and on and on. I hate when things go wrong and the real cause of the failure is not identified. If the alternator goes out as long as the battery was charged the car would continue to run for a period of time as long as the voltage was high enough to keep the electronics functioning, starting the car is the biggest individual draw.

Would like to see the PDI sheet from the dealer, I bet they only check the battery if they check anything at all electrically.
 

PyrPatriot

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Yes, either pave it, take care of it better (all mile and a half), or don't try a warranty claim and bitch when they say it's outside of it lol. That's between you and the dealer, luckily I have gone slowly through the mud holes I have gone through. I think as long as your ENTIRE vehicle isn't covered like OPs was, literally COATED on the roof like it was dumped on there, I think you'll be ok.
Or as long as none of those potholes are big enough that they throw mud on top of the alternator and such. But, for that to happen it is no longer a pot hole but a mud hole. OP did not hit a pot hole or even a rut in a road, she hit a cavity in earth
 

Riccochet

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If Jeep and the dealer would have just taken this as a chance to learn if there is an issue they could have determined if the debris was pulled from the radiator, thrown by the fan, slung up from the bottom, or ? This would def help to make sure the rest of us don't need to worry.

Again, you city slickers don't give a rats as you don't live on dirt roads and a large portion of you don't live in snow country where mud, slush, snow water are a real daily issue 4-5 months a year.

Papa is not the only seasoned vet mechanic on this forum like he thinks and as a mechanic, car builder, motorhead, engine builder, sxs owner, and all around off-road junky, I would really like to find the exact problem so the rest of us can decide if we need to fab a shield or plate to keep this from happening. My daughter drives one of these daily here in the NW and I def don't want her to have an issue.

What if it actually rattled a cable loose, plug or wire came off that was loose from factory? Was it actually the alternator or the voltage reg? Did his battery get drenched and cause the truck to shut off? Maybe the starter hung up because the auto start tried to engage and shorted something out? I mean it goes on and on and on. I hate when things go wrong and the real cause of the failure is not identified. If the alternator goes out as long as the battery was charged the car would continue to run for a period of time as long as the voltage was high enough to keep the electronics functioning, starting the car is the biggest individual draw.

Would like to see the PDI sheet from the dealer, I bet they only check the battery if they check anything at all electrically.
You seem to think there is some kind of design flaw. Nailing water/mud at speed has been killing vehicles since forever.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I'm not the only, but for years was the best in Iowa LOL. Still get work sent to me from all around the country. Hobby and pro - differences.
Anyway, odd that things were mentioned that aren't even possible on these things. Starter hung up because of autostart and shorted something? Uh, no.
Voltage regulator? Nope. (and testing is simple)
Seriously, some are treating this as if it was driven on a dirt road with pot holes. It wasn't. It was deep, it was fast. Too much emotion going on and no logic or diagnostic abilities being applied.
Just a lot of "stuff" being tossed at the wall to see what sticks.
We do not know when the alternator actually stopped working - could have been second pass through, then subsequent passes or driving finished things off. But these will warn you if the voltage gets low. Even my 4.0 transplant does that. It started and ran - but told me the voltage was low -triggered MIL.

Custom built for a show car in Texas............ one owner car - I deal with auto-electric daily, starters, alternators, wiper motors, etc. not just backyard shade-tree parts swapping.
Just trying to show I'm using logic and experience, not emotion or pure guess-work here.
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ShadowsPapa

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I'm rather curious to know where the author gets his information about folks reconsidering purchasing a Gladiator based on this article?
You aren't the only one questioning this and other such sites. Any person, I mean anyone, even anyone here, can get cheap or free web space, free web construction and get started and glean information from forums and other sites and post it like you were a regular car magazine with real experts.
Even in that article they admit they don't have the full story. But that's not how they lead.

And the more I see this out there, the more I have a feeling it was meant to be spread all over.
Too few facts, too little information from both sides. I have some feelings about this but won't go into details here as I know it will just piss people off - no matter how correct I may or may not be. (anyone amazed by how fast this one spread to more than a handful of blogs? Hmmm? You shouldn't be.)

I'd love for them to quantify the numbers of people reconsidering based on ONE STORY that was purposely spread all over the web on every Tom, Dick and Harry's blog - rather than professional expert auto sites.
IMO, "carbuzz" is about income, clicks, advertising. Intelligent stories be damned.

 
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kostik76

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I would imagine they do not cover for failure due to abuse. In Wrangler and Gladiator case I think it should be a little better spelled out on what that abuse would be. I had my 2016 wrangler mud bathed and it looked about the same as yours. There is no fun going through it slow :) and with our aerodynamics it does not take much speed to splatter that over our roof. Now that said, all I had was some mud penetrate my left side hub and was making the noise which you could hear with an open window next to the divider for the next 3 years I owned it :-(. But again, before taking the truck to the dealer for unrelated issues, it was washed and did not look like it was put through war. use some common sense. edit: just remembered, truck was freaking out after the mud bath, but was OK once it dried up and after the wash only issue I had was the ball bearing noise. Mine was manual so I had no major issues driving it home, but I do remember it wanted to stall on idle.
 

Sazabi19

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You aren't the only one questioning this and other such sites. Any person, I mean anyone, even anyone here, can get cheap or free web space, free web construction and get started and glean information from forums and other sites and post it like you were a regular car magazine with real experts.
Even in that article they admit they don't have the full story. But that's not how they lead.

And the more I see this out there, the more I have a feeling it was meant to be spread all over.
Too few facts, too little information from both sides. I have some feelings about this but won't go into details here as I know it will just piss people off - no matter how correct I may or may not be. (anyone amazed by how fast this one spread to more than a handful of blogs? Hmmm?)

I'd love for them to quantify the numbers of people reconsidering based on ONE STORY that was purposely spread all over the web on every Tom, Dick and Harry's blog - rather than professional expert auto sites.
IMO, "carbuzz" is about income, clicks, advertising. Intelligent stories be damned.

This exactly I noted many pages back that every PoS wanna be site was running with this story like it meant anything. Either OP is speaking with them or they're coming up with their own conclusions. Most of these are hot garbage and I wish people wouldn't link them here for hits or make them seem anymore legit than they are.
 

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