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What limits towing on manual transmission?

NachoRuby

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The gearing is even worse in the Rubicon or Mojave when paired to the manual. If you're going to tow frequently, get the auto.
The gearing is better in a Rubicon or Mojave. Numerically, it just is. 4.1 > 3.73. That's why max tows (automatic) are at 4.1 and regular sports are at 3.73. A higher numerical gear ratio makes towing and hauling loads easier, on either transmission. You're multiplying more torque, making it easier to move heavy stuff.
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mmaddired18

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The gearing is better in a Rubicon or Mojave. Numerically, it just is. 4.1 > 3.73. That's why max tows (automatic) are at 4.1 and regular sports are at 3.73. A higher numerical gear ratio makes towing and hauling loads easier, on either transmission. You're multiplying more torque, making it easier to move heavy stuff.
"Worse" in the sense that you're shifting a lot more and it's harder to drive at low speeds, especially if you've got a trailer to manage as well. It's definitely better for towing and whatnot, just not the best combination from an ease of use standpoint when trailering. Sorry for the lack of clarity.
 

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Get the max tow! Always better to have more than you need then none when you need it..i bought a manual thinking it could tow the same and was sadly mistaken max tow way to go!
 

NachoRuby

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"Worse" in the sense that you're shifting a lot more and it's harder to drive at low speeds, especially if you've got a trailer to manage as well. It's definitely better for towing and whatnot, just not the best combination from an ease of use standpoint when trailering. Sorry for the lack of clarity.
It's easier to drive at low speeds though, that's why the transfer case in low range is 4:1 on the Rubicon combined with the 4.1 final drive. It makes slow speeds easier. That's an extreme example, but higher ratios make slow speeds easier. That's why everyone regears to a numerically higher ratio. It makes everything easier. If you don't want to shift a lot, this isn't the right choice, though, you're right there.

Did you just mean you'll run out of gear sooner, so have to shift quicker? The gears are stupid long on the JT. You're not going to run out of gear. On my Rubicon, I'm pretty sure 3rd topped out at 91 on the stock tires. Can't remember the exact number. On 35s now, I'd hit the speed limiter in third. I could calculate it, but don't really feel like looking it up lol. But the gears are so long on manual JTs that the problem is having to downshift often, due to low torque at lower RPMs, so having higher gear ratios definitely helps with that.

You will be shifting a lot on any manual JT, because there is no low end torque. But the 4.1 gears also help with that. You'll shift less, because it'll stay in the power better and send more torque to the wheels. You'll be able, for example, to hold 5th and 6th longer. The higher gearing makes everything easier. The only downside is you're turning more RPMs, so could potentially use more fuel. I guess theoretically top speed is lower, but these aren't exactly built for the salt flats anyway. Otherwise, more gear is better, for just about everything.
 
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What exactly makes a "max tow" a "max" tow?
 

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NachoRuby

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What exactly makes a "max tow" a "max" tow?
Gearing. Axles, springs, shocks. Probably some other stuff, but those are the big ones. You get wider axles like a Rubicon or Mojave, 4.1 final drive, springs and shocks designed for pulling heavy stuff.
 

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What exactly makes a "max tow" a "max" tow?
That question comes in every few months - and was many dozens of pages a couple of years back. There's no one single thing. You can't possibly say 'what is different" and have a short list. You can't add anything to make one "max tow" but many things you add take AWAY from that tow rating.
It's progressive springs, it's center of gravity, it's gear ratio, it's automatic transmission, it's tire size, it's axle width (1.5" wider than say, a standard Sport or Sport S or Overland, for example), weight of the truck, the hitch receiver, and more (although any of them with the "tow package" have that same receiver)
These must be tested and certified to get that rating.
A couple of years or so back, Ford was caught cheating by leaving off equipment to make the truck lighter and sit differently - back bumper and spare were left off for their testing, for example. Naughty naughty!
Nacho hit the basic stuff - but I add to it because we've seen so many say "so if I regear and swap springs I have max tow, right?" hehe....... wrong...........
 
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Trim matters too. Towing limit is 4500 lbs on Rubicon and Mojaves with the manual (and towing package), and 4000 on the others. OP didn't say which trim he was considering, I don't believe.
I went with a Rubicon partly because it adds the extra 500 lbs to the tow rating. This is my 'fun' vehicle and I decided having a manual was more important than having the max tow capacity. I'll still use it to tow, I'll just take it easy.
 

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I only drive manual. I've probably driven an automatic all of 2000 miles in my life, just on rental cars for trips and loaners. I've never personally owned an automatic. So it feels weird for me to drive one. Also, I don't have anything anywhere approaching my limit of 4500 lbs to pull. I don't dislike automatics, or think all jeeps need to be manuals. I'm not one of those. But for me, personally, since I've exclusively driven manual for my entire driving life, it's more comfortable for me to drive. It takes less thought, since it's literally the only thing I've ever driven so when I drive an auto, it feels awkward.

Plus, I'm going to get this last hurrah in with a manual before I buy my next car, which by then will be electric and therefore single speed
You may be surprised my 4xe shifts gears. Has a zf8 speed in line with the electric motor ..in line with the gas motor. Shifts can get a bit clunky if your on the throttle then off it while the gas engine is shutting down. But honestly not as bad as a foot slipping off a clutch peddle after a downshift. There will always be drive line lash when you have multiple power sources.
With a high end automatic of todays tech the shifts are smooth fast and strong. Hard to beat an auto nowadays. Although for those that prefer more active engagement in the driving experience there will never be a substitute for rowing your own gears. Any car I buy for fun on the run will have to be a manual. For towing or off roading it’s an auto.
 

NachoRuby

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You may be surprised my 4xe shifts gears. Has a zf8 speed in line with the electric motor ..in line with the gas motor. Shifts can get a bit clunky if your on the throttle then off it while the gas engine is shutting down. But honestly not as bad as a foot slipping off a clutch peddle after a downshift. There will always be drive line lash when you have multiple power sources.
With a high end automatic of todays tech the shifts are smooth fast and strong. Hard to beat an auto nowadays. Although for those that prefer more active engagement in the driving experience there will never be a substitute for rowing your own gears. Any car I buy for fun on the run will have to be a manual. For towing or off roading it’s an auto.
Yes, but I meant my next one will be full electric (not hybrid). Most full electrics are single speed, with a major exception being the Porsche Taycan being a 2 speed. I want like a jeep version of the Rivian, but hopefully better looking than the Rivian, and keeping the classic jeep charm. That's the only thing I could see replacing my gladiator. My wife looked at a 4xe though. She liked it a lot. It was incredibly quick, with a great interior. She didn't end up going through with it though.

I think she's holding off until the next generation, and hopefully a full ev wrangler will be available. Until then she's sticking with the JKU. I like what I see with the Rivian (specs and capability wise) but it's uglier than sin. I want a jeep version of that for me, still convertible, and still doors off/folding windshield.
 
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I prefer manuals. But I found the Jeep manual to be annoying. The long throws with a rubbery shifter. Also the AT is so good. It was pretty clear to me.

If I get another STi or an M2, I'll get a stick. But on trucks, test driving a manual Jeep reminded me that I prefer ATs.
 

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I only drive manual. I've probably driven an automatic all of 2000 miles in my life, just on rental cars for trips and loaners. I've never personally owned an automatic. So it feels weird for me to drive one. Also, I don't have anything anywhere approaching my limit of 4500 lbs to pull. I don't dislike automatics, or think all jeeps need to be manuals. I'm not one of those. But for me, personally, since I've exclusively driven manual for my entire driving life, it's more comfortable for me to drive. It takes less thought, since it's literally the only thing I've ever driven so when I drive an auto, it feels awkward.

Plus, I'm going to get this last hurrah in with a manual before I buy my next car, which by then will be electric and therefore single speed
Same with me. Always MTs on all my 4X4s since 1967. I ordered a JTR MT for the same reason. I assume my next vehicle will be plug-in hybrid, all electric, or hydrogen, but at 72 I might not live that long. Then, who knows when they'll build the JTR!
 

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That's why I don't understand why anyone would go manual...
People like to throw the gears. It is a more connected vehicle experience. While not for me, I get it.
 

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what do users enjoy about manual, the automatic gearbox in these are among the very best in the industry, manual are among the worst.
In my case because it keeps me totally involved in driving---which is inherently safer for both me and those around me.
 

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In my case because it keeps me totally involved in driving---which is inherently safer for both me and those around me.
I did test an auto JT and it was much better than the Tacoma, but still like manuals.
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