WTF, first fuel, now DEF?

[ShadowsPapa]

Your Jeep barely uses any DEF compared to the big rigs on the highways. That $5+ a gallon diesel and the increase in DEF is just making things worse. Maybe throw some 35’s on a Prius? ? But let’s get back to fishing.

But wait - doesn't fishing involve trolling?

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[COmtnbiker]

I got a 4xe…. It gets great mileage if it’s warm out… not so good in the cold though

Can you expand on why gas mileage suffers in the cold? Is it because the gas engine continues to run for the heat pump?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Can you expand on why gas mileage suffers in the cold? Is it because the gas engine continues to run for the heat pump?

Combustion is more efficient when the engine is WARM.
Often, smaller engines take longer to warm up (not always, and it's changed in recent years)
Cold air is more dense, thus you are fighting more drag and more "wind resistance"
Winter fuel blends get worse MPG
There are other factors, but those are the main ones. Any vehicle will get worse mpg in cold weather- like sub-30 (F), for example

 

[Sazabi19]

Can you expand on why gas mileage suffers in the cold? Is it because the gas engine continues to run for the heat pump?

That's pretty much exactly it. I think the electric heater is an 8Kw unit and Jeep says it's not sufficient to keep the cabin heated and everything at operating temp without draining the battery rapidly. The ICE is the primary heat source for your heater. The electric heater helps to keep the cooling system up and running/cycling even when the vehicle is off but plugged in.

Another reason people's mileage is tanking is because they are going into FORM (Fuel Oil Removal Msomething). Essentially the oil is getting fuel in it and it needs to cook off. A lot of people are taking this for short drives and the oil never gets up to a temp high enough to cook off the fuel from oil. People who do drive longer distances are still doing it in a way that cold air is getting into the engine bay and not letting it get hot enough still. Thus my comments about getting the grill cover to help the engine reach a higher temp.

The biggest problem is that Jeep doesn't offer this cover as a factory option when I think it should be included in the cold weather package on the 4xe. Your average Schmo that is going to get a 4xe isn't going to go onto forums and research any of this so they'll just nag the dealer and the 4xe is getting a bad wrap because of it right now. People don't understand the design and Jeep isn't doing anything to help. Even people who are on forums it seems mostly just piss and moan about it instead of really looking into it and understand WHY something is going on. They need to be spoon fed rather than use any critical thought or have to connect dots.

And no, none of this is aimed at you @Glad_he_ate _her

Also what @ShadowsPapa said.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A lot of people are taking this for short drives and the oil never gets up to a temp high enough to cook off the fuel from oil.

Yes, and the water. Short drives cause condensation in the crankcase. You have to heat the oil high enough for LONG enough to get rid of the condensation and the "blow by" (combustion gases).

Ye hit on some biggies.


(for non-member on-lookers and sometimes there's around 1,000 of them) -
It's not a matter of "ok, it's at 200 degrees" it's a matter of "it's at 200 degrees for xx minutes".
These are often bought for commuting, short drives, and that's hard on things.

 

[woffman5]

My favorite is Steelhead but the rivers are closed right now.

You mean Rainbow Trout?!! At least that's what they are called in Colorado.... Man I miss fly fishing in the cold ass head waters for the CO river in August. Nothing like sliding off a bank into 37 degree water on a 75 degree day!

 

[Glad_he_ate]

Can you expand on why gas mileage suffers in the cold? Is it because the gas engine continues to run for the heat pump?

If your requesting more heat than the electric can provide it will force the gas motor To run. Also with the battery being cold and all the different fluids being cold it’s just less efficient.

 

[Rusty PW]

Combustion is more efficient when the engine is WARM.
Often, smaller engines take longer to warm up (not always, and it's changed in recent years)
Cold air is more dense, thus you are fighting more drag and more "wind resistance"
Winter fuel blends get worse MPG
There are other factors, but those are the main ones. Any vehicle will get worse mpg in cold weather- like sub-30 (F), for example

You are some what wrong on this. Yes, the engine runs better when warm. But loves cold air going into it. Especially on a turbo or supercharged motor. If the Air intake temps get too high, the ecu will start to put timing to reduce power. On the dyno with my twin turbo'ed 700hp track car. A 65F morning, hp was 703. Late afternoon 90F. Power was down to 623. Nothing was done to the car between the runs.

At the power plant with gas turbines. We could see over a 100MW' difference between a 90F day vs a 0F day. That's a HUGE difference.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You are some what wrong on this. Yes, the engine runs better when warm. But loves cold air going into it. Especially on a turbo or supercharged motor. If the Air intake temps get too high, the ecu will start to put timing to reduce power. On the dyno with my twin turbo'ed 700hp track car. A 65F morning, hp was 703. Late afternoon 90F. Power was down to 623. Nothing was done to the car between the runs.

At the power plant with gas turbines. We could see over a 100MW' difference between a 90F day vs a 0F day. That's a HUGE difference.

Wasn't talking intake air - when the air is colder, you have more of it packed into a given space. You can gain on the track by opening the hood and cooling the engine bay area down between runs. It's not a huge amount, but counts for tenths.
We usually run "test and tune" on Friday evenings and the cool humid night air by the Mississippi helps. The engines were still hot, but the cool air going in was good.

 

[Bananaman]

Just got my first 2.5 gallon jug of Peak DEF at the local Wally World today. $15.20. So, $6.08 a gal.
Nervous as hell pouring it in too. With all the "information" on the internet you would think I was handling nitroglycerin. Hoping the Eco diesel likes it and approves!

 

[Sazabi19]

Isn't DEF supposed to last hundreds or thousands of miles?

 

[mrmo]

Just got my first 2.5 gallon jug of Peak DEF at the local Wally World today. $15.20. So, $6.08 a gal.
Nervous as hell pouring it in too. With all the "information" on the internet you would think I was handling nitroglycerin. Hoping the Eco diesel likes it and approves!

Thats a good price, I started this thread after looking at BlueDEF Platinum @$28/2.5gal yesterday...I want to use the best to help alleviate any issues w the system later on...

 

[mrmo]

Isn't DEF supposed to last hundreds or thousands of miles?

My Willys is fairly new (2022), getting ready to add 3rd container in 6800 mi, which seems excessive. I know theres a PCM flash recall but dont know if im under that or not, due to high use of DEF

 

[TroutFishingInAmerica]

You mean Rainbow Trout?!! At least that's what they are called in Colorado.... Man I miss fly fishing in the cold ass head waters for the CO river in August. Nothing like sliding off a bank into 37 degree water on a 75 degree day!

Steelhead are a trout but they spawn in rivers and migrate to the ocean much like the life cycle of salmon, they don't die after spawning like a salmon though.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Steelhead are a trout but they spawn in rivers and migrate to the ocean much like the life cycle of salmon, they don't die after spawning like a salmon though.

They are also a healthy food. We used to buy steelhead in the store until the prices got really crazy. I prefer it to salmon although I really liked the fresh Alaskan salmon we had at a salmon bake up there. Man, that was GOOD.

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