Diesel Full Compression Suspension Cycling Measurements

[ajkaz]

Hello All, After searching and not finding anything, I couldn’t see where anyone had fully cycled the stock suspension to get the actual shock measurements with the diesel as the bump towers are a different length.

This is on a ‘22 JTRD that came factory with the TSB for bottoming already addressed.

Here’s what I found, pics below:
At full compression w. bump stops bottomed out - 17.5” shock bolt hole center to bolt hole center.
-This left several inches of shock shaft showing it was tough to measure but its close to 2”, the specs on the shocks showed a 7.88” stroke. That means with the stock setup we only have 6.1” of Usable travel in the OEM shocks. Crazy!

Because of this when buying shocks for a diesel I wouldn’t buy anything with a compressed length less than 17.25”. Otherwise your wasting travel. Most companies are using these length shocks with a “3-4.5” lift. Always request extended and compressed lengths when buying shocks, dont listen to their advertised lift heights if you want to get the most out of your suspension. If a manufacturer doesn’t release that information dont trust them; @ICON.
Keep an eye on down travel and watch those brake lines, I safely achieved 26” of down travel without any wires or hoses pulling Too tight. Anything more than that and you’d need to loosen the brake/abs and possible locker wiring and diff vent.

Anyone know the droop limits of the factory driveshaft?

The axle tube literally sits in the curved depression of the upper oil pan that you can see from the front, you couldn’t get more up travel if you tried.

I swapped in the Clayton 1.5” Diesel Leveling springs, the Mopar Lift lower control arms and some extended sway bar links. With the Clayton springs on a stock JTRD the Jeep is exactly level, I gained exactly 1.5”. The spring rate is good, definitely firmer than stock but not jarring, they actually work well with the Fox Rubicon shock valving. I now have exactly 4” of up travel which is great, unfortunately I only have 2” of droop!

I’ll be adding .75” spacers in the rear to reduce squatting when loaded and adding some go fast shocks. Either SDI Eclick or Fox 3.0. I’d like to run with the Mojave & Raptor folks in Baja (even if at the back of the pack) and also play on the Rubicon and in Moab.

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[Almost]

Just so I'm clear - you used these springs below, right? Asking as I see they only advertise 1/2 inch of lift when using them on the diesel, but you are reporting much more which is consistent with their original application to level a gas JL. I'm waiting on the parts to get to the dealer for the bottoming out TSB and will be adding the Clayton springs as well for a band-aid fix until I'm ready for a full lift. My wife daily's it so the 37s will have to wait.

https://www.claytonoffroad.com/prod...-jeep-gladiator-jt-05-lift-front-coil-springs

 

[HjStrater]

Interesting read, the only place I might challenge you is on the 6.1” of travel. Just because there is shaft showing, doesn’t mean there is that much more up travel left in the shock, so I don’t think there would actually be 2” wasted. Each time I have removed shocks, even with the suspension at full droop, the shocks fully extended have been longer than the lower shock mount and needed to be persuaded up to get the bolt in.

I could be totally wrong though, it’s been awhile since I dropped the suspension with stock length shocks.

 

[@californiajeeping]

You need more uptravel unless you like smashing bump stops.

I put the teraflex falcon extended bump stops on my metal cloak 3.5". It gave me a full 3.5" lift in the front and sometimes wish I had another .5".

I would go hydraulic or air bumps if you can. That would be an even nicer ride than my longer foam ones.

 

[ajkaz]

Just so I'm clear - you used these springs below, right? Asking as I see they only advertise 1/2 inch of lift when using them on the diesel, but you are reporting much more which is consistent with their original application to level a gas JL. I'm waiting on the parts to get to the dealer for the bottoming out TSB and will be adding the Clayton springs as well for a band-aid fix until I'm ready for a full lift. My wife daily's it so the 37s will have to wait.

https://www.claytonoffroad.com/prod...-jeep-gladiator-jt-05-lift-front-coil-springs

I did not. I used the springs from this kit which if you scroll down and click on Bill of Materials you can click on the springs themselves and they were originally 2.5" coils for the Gas JK & JL, but have been tested on the diesel JT's. Its only been a day and 50 miles, but I'm happy with the spring rate and I'm right where I wanted to be for down travel. From an eye test the truck is perfectly level.

https://www.claytonoffroad.com/product/jeep-gladiator-15-leveling-kit-2020-jt

 

[ajkaz]

Interesting read, the only place I might challenge you is on the 6.1” of travel. Just because there is shaft showing, doesn’t mean there is that much more up travel left in the shock, so I don’t think there would actually be 2” wasted. Each time I have removed shocks, even with the suspension at full droop, the shocks fully extended have been longer than the lower shock mount and needed to be persuaded up to get the bolt in.

I could be totally wrong though, it’s been awhile since I dropped the suspension with stock length shocks.

With everything fully disconnected the shocks extend to just shy of 24" so right on to the Mopar claimed spec of 23.63" I didn't test droop with the sway bar as I was swapping links anyway. But if there is more travel left after the sway bar is disconnected its likely limiting downward travel as well. Total shock travel is certainly limited to full droop 23.63" (if achievable with the sway bar links connected) and full compression which is 17.5" that's 6.13" of shock travel. This was measured on the Jeep during normal suspension cycling without the spring.

-I was just highlighting how much shaft was still exposed to compare to the full length of the shock.

 

[ajkaz]

You need more uptravel unless you like smashing bump stops.

I put the teraflex falcon extended bump stops on my metal cloak 3.5". It gave me a full 3.5" lift in the front and sometimes wish I had another .5".

I would go hydraulic or air bumps if you can. That would be an even nicer ride than my longer foam ones.

I'm going to run an internal bypass shock to slow compression at the end of the stroke before bottoming, but if its still an issue I'll throw in some hydro bumps.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

You need more uptravel unless you like smashing bump stops.

I put the teraflex falcon extended bump stops on my metal cloak 3.5". It gave me a full 3.5" lift in the front and sometimes wish I had another .5".

I would go hydraulic or air bumps if you can. That would be an even nicer ride than my longer foam ones.

i totally agree with this. Hydro Bumps… when you bottom them out completely… they are bottomed out completely. The foam bumps- you can bottom them out completely…. But the bottom is a buffer- just depends on how hard you bottom out….

OP- good to know on the oil pan clearance….. this might make my plans change (a ways to go yet…. ) but I was planning to throw a truss on the artech apex is low- but still a couple inches off the tubes……. Was hoping to do a 2.5” kit- might look at 3.5-4”….

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

I'm going to run an internal bypass shock to slow compression at the end of the stroke before bottoming, but if its still an issue I'll throw in some hydro bumps.

Internal bypass is nice….. Buuuut if I were you… I would not plan on that being the plan…. Internal bypass is a great added safety precaution but shouldn’t be used as the actual bump stop.
Just curious what are you looking at? (Company/model)

 

[ajkaz]

i totally agree with this. Hydro Bumps… when you bottom them out completely… they are bottomed out completely. The foam bumps- you can bottom them out completely…. But the bottom is a buffer- just depends on how hard you bottom out….

OP- good to know on the oil pan clearance….. this might make my plans change (a ways to go yet…. ) but I was planning to throw a truss on the artech apex is low- but still a couple inches off the tubes……. Was hoping to do a 2.5” kit- might look at 3.5-4”….

I could put my thumb between the tube and the recessed curve in the engine. You have about 1.25" max.

 

[ajkaz]

Internal bypass is nice….. Buuuut if I were you… I would not plan on that being the plan…. Internal bypass is a great added safety precaution but shouldn’t be used as the actual bump stop.
Just curious what are you looking at? (Company/model)

I wouldn't use the shock as the bump, being that our bumpstops are so long from the factory, I'll likely use a shock with a 17.25"-17.5" compressed length and swap in a progressive foam bump up front so I still utilize nearly all of the up travel but still hit the factory bump tower before bottoming the shock.

I'm going to use either the Bilsten B8 8100 External Bypass or the SDi eClick Pro Internal Bypass.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

I wouldn't use the shock as the bump, being that our bumpstops are so long from the factory, I'll likely use a shock with a 17.25"-17.5" compressed length and swap in a progressive foam bump up front so I still utilize nearly all of the up travel but still hit the factory bump tower before bottoming the shock.

I'm going to use either the Bilsten B8 8100 External Bypass or the SDi eClick Pro Internal Bypass.

I ran the 8100’a with external on my jku….. seriously under rated shocks. I ran them with fox bumps. Pretty much plan to duplicate the setup with our jtd…

run limiting straps too…..

We have fox internal bump coil overs on the sxs (wildcat xx- because it’s different… ) we race…. Still run hydro bumps and straps…..

 

[ajkaz]

I ran the 8100’a with external on my jku….. seriously under rated shocks. I ran them with fox bumps. Pretty much plan to duplicate the setup with our jtd…

run limiting straps too…..

We have fox internal bump coil overs on the sxs (wildcat xx- because it’s different… ) we race…. Still run hydro bumps and straps…..

Really odd that no one is running them! They are harder to find info on and not marketed well at all... Not sure why.... Just giving Lite Brite a set doesn't pay for all your marketing... There's nothing else like them on the market from a bolt on perspective and the pricing is aggressive.

Not sure why anyone is even running Kings anymore with the options from Bilstein and Fox....

Have you seen the SDI eclicks yet? Check out their pro kit, its unreal. Best of both worlds.... Price is definitely not one of those worlds though LOL.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

Really odd that no one is running them! They are harder to find info on and not marketed well at all... Not sure why.... Just giving Lite Brite a set doesn't pay for all your marketing... There's nothing else like them on the market from a bolt on perspective and the pricing is aggressive.

Not sure why anyone is even running Kings anymore with the options from Bilstein and Fox....

Have you seen the SDI eclicks yet? Check out their pro kit, its unreal. Best of both worlds.... Price is definitely not one of those worlds though LOL.

$4600 is right there with the 8100’s. We paid $1100 per corner for dual external bypass.
So- I haven’t heard or seen anyone running these Sid’s. They look really good - might raise a bit of long term concern with the proprietary seals.
So I would want to talk to someone who has rebuilt them to see if there is any extra butt pain with rebuilding these.
King, fox and Bilstein are pretty easy to source reeds, seals, shafts if you end one…. Just about all of the components are “relatively easy” to find. So if you are considering the sdi- keep that in mind? Maybe make a few calls to ensure you can get parts when you need parts.
Seals can go at any time for no reason at all. I swear we never had issues in Mojave or Death Valley. We get a few miles into the white mountains and weird things would break for no reason!
Edit: looks like Bilstein has come down 100-150 each.
So yeah I would agree and ask- what are you getting for 6-800 more .

 

[ajkaz]

$4600 is right there with the 8100’s. We paid $1100 per corner for dual external bypass.
So- I haven’t heard or seen anyone running these Sid’s. They look really good - might raise a bit of long term concern with the proprietary seals.
So I would want to talk to someone who has rebuilt them to see if there is any extra butt pain with rebuilding these.
King, fox and Bilstein are pretty easy to source reeds, seals, shafts if you end one…. Just about all of the components are “relatively easy” to find. So if you are considering the sdi- keep that in mind? Maybe make a few calls to ensure you can get parts when you need parts.
Seals can go at any time for no reason at all. I swear we never had issues in Mojave or Death Valley. We get a few miles into the white mountains and weird things would break for no reason!
Edit: looks like Bilstein has come down 100-150 each.
So yeah I would agree and ask- what are you getting for 6-800 more .

Check this out, pretty incredible what the system does:
So I've found that the shocks are all Walker Evans shocks, all the common parts are stocked and pretty easy to get. If the computer fails the shocks default to full stiff.

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