Sway bar disconnect question

[samd1351]

Question is, do I need to run the sway bar at all? For comparison (not really a comparison, but just something we did on a whim) we pulled the sway bay and links off my son's 99 Ranger. Just took the whole thing out. Seemed to drive just fine.

Looking at the sway bar on the jeep, it looks pretty damn hefty. Seems like a weight saving opportunity. Especially if one is going to add a winch. Is anyone running without it? If it safe to do so? Just curious?

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[XraytecH]

Hmmm...

I would think you'd increase the likelihood to roll over your rig with sudden turns especially if its lifted.

 

[samd1351]

Hmmm...

I would think you'd increase the likelihood to roll over your rig with sudden turns especially if its lifted.

I was a little worried about that with the Ranger, but he drove it pretty hard on the street (which is where I think he would have had the biggest issue), and it didn't really seem to be too "tippy". Completely different vehicle, I know, but still. Anyway, just a random thought after the lift install.

 

[Lunentucker]

Is it a sway bar or an anti sway bar?

 

[dcmdon]

I was a little worried about that with the Ranger, but he drove it pretty hard on the street (which is where I think he would have had the biggest issue), and it didn't really seem to be too "tippy". Completely different vehicle, I know, but still. Anyway, just a random thought after the lift install.

vehicles tend to slide the end with the most roll stiffness first.

So if your front has more roll stiffness, the vehicle will "push" or understeer. This is pretty benign because as the front starts to push, you instinctively turn the wheel more.

If your vehicle has more roll stiffness in the back, what you are proposing, the rear end will slide or "fishtail". This is a harder situation to correct since it involves turning into the slide. (cars that are drifting are oversteering).

You won't feel this until you push the vehicle to the point where one end slides. Since most of us don't push our Jeeps on the street, we're really talking about emergency evasive maneuvers. Someone pulls out in front of you while you are minding your own business driving down the road.

Once the car is sliding sideways, you are just along for the ride. This is also when a Jeep is going to be most vulnerable to a roll over.

IMHO, removing the front roll bar is dangerous because your Jeep will no longer behave predictably at the limit. You may actually be better off removing both sway bars. At least then the handling will be balanced. Though you may roll over. Ha.

For the $20 it takes to install a set of link pins, it makes no sense to horribly compromise your on-road handling.

Is it a sway bar or an anti sway bar?

Its the same thing. People like to argue about what the proper name is. Some even call it a stay bar.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

Why not just RockJock and not worry?

 

[Alans17]

I’d be most afraid of a high-speed swerve maneuver such as dodging a vehicle coming into your lane or noticing that curve in the road just a little too late.

 

[XraytecH]

Why not just RockJock and not worry?

The OP wants to save weight so no sway bar or the like.

 

[samd1351]

Thanks @dcmdon for the detailed explanation. I was just curious as to why people didn't just pull the sway, or anti sway bar. Now I know. I guess it didn't seem like a huge deal in the Ranger as it was not capable of high speed maneuvers. It needed a big hill and tail wind to hit 80 mph. Although, 80 is about as fast as this thing likes to go now so... But the wife likes to drive it, so it'll stay on.

 

[Panthers65]

I went about a week without my sway bar while I was waiting on a new link from MetalCloak (absurdly great service from there BTW, needed a new link likely because of my own doing and they sent one out warranty, then FedEx lost the link and Metalcloak sent out another).

I did mostly around town driving but did have to get on the interstate once, Not my favorite thing and you could definitely tell a difference, but It was temporary so I stayed in the right lane and kept my distance from the vehicles in front of my.

My Jeep didn't immediately blow up and I didn't kill a busload of nuns, it did fine but you can definitely tell a difference and there's substantial more bodyroll. I wouldn't want do to it all the time, but temporarily it won't hurt anything if you drive it like a lifted vehicle without a swaybar. Around town don't drive it like a sports car and understand it's going to roll when you turn at any speed.

 

[dcmdon]

Thanks @dcmdon for the detailed explanation. I was just curious as to why people didn't just pull the sway, or anti sway bar. Now I know. I guess it didn't seem like a huge deal in the Ranger as it was not capable of high speed maneuvers. It needed a big hill and tail wind to hit 80 mph. Although, 80 is about as fast as this thing likes to go now so... But the wife likes to drive it, so it'll stay on.

Its not necessarily about going 80. You could find yourself in a situation where the vehicle is sliding sideways at 30 mph if someone pulls out in front of you.

My Jeep didn't immediately blow up and I didn't kill a busload of nuns, it did fine but you can definitely tell a difference and there's substantial more bodyroll. I wouldn't want do to it all the time, but temporarily it won't hurt anything if you drive it like a lifted vehicle without a swaybar. Around town don't drive it like a sports car and understand it's going to roll when you turn at any speed.

The real problem isn't going to reveal itself unless you have to make an emergency avoidance maneuver. (Or find yourself coming into a corner too fast and need to brake while turning, but Jeep owners don't tend to drive that way)

At that point , rather than the front end scrubbing in benign understeer, the rear end will come around. As long as you keep lateral acceleration well below the point where the truck will skid, it will drive just fine.

By the way, this is my big problem with the anti-rock product. You are replacing your front sway bar with a permanently set softer bar. This will significantly bias the handling of vehicle when its at its on-road traction limits.

I know very little about off roading and can't comment on the manufacturers claims that its actually superior to a disconnected sway bar when off road. However I raced motorcycles and cars for the better part of 20 years when I was younger and have a very very good understanding of and practical experience applying suspension tuning concepts.

The one unknown in all this is how the Jeep's active safety systems could help to correct this problem CREATED by reducing front roll stiffness. As the back end starts to come around, the system could in theory brake the outside front wheel in an attempt to stop the yaw and bring the back end into line. I'm sure it would help a bit. But do you really want to be the test driver sliding sideways on the highway with your family in the truck??

One other way to look at things is that by using a disconnecting front roll bar you can actually purchase a set of roll bars that are stiffer than stock and provide better roll control. A good friend has been building up his JK with wheels, tires, an LT1 from Motec, etc. One of the biggest improvements he made was Hellwig sway bars. These stiffer bars would adversely impact articulation, but if you can disconnect them, then you have the best of both worlds.

 

[fourfa]

I can’t tell you about the JT other than what it’s like disconnecting the front sway bar on my Rubi, but you probably already know that.

But before this I had wheeled the crap out of a 2nd-gen Tacoma. On those, you can only get 8” of front articulation from the upper control arm ball joint. Replace that with a high-angle joint and you can get 12” - but only with the swaybar disconnected. Unfortunately, discos don’t work as the swaybar arm crosses and interferes with the CV axle - if you only disconnect one end, the other will cut the CV boot. If you disconnect both, you can’t really rotate it out of the way enough. And I’d have to pull heavy armor plates to install and remove the whole bar for a trip…

Long story short, I ran that truck with no front swaybar for a long time - but (this is key) in combination with extremely heavy duty rear leafs with overloads, and front Icon coilovers with more than double the stock spring and damper rate. But still, I would never just toss the keys to someone. A sudden avoidance maneuver would be more dangerous than just plowing into something in front of you. Temporarily loaded with extra crap on the roof was extra, extra spicy.

Don’t do it. It’s not worth saving twenty pounds or whatever. Just get discos and be glad that you can.

 

[chorky]

By the way, this is my big problem with the anti-rock product. You are replacing your front sway bar with a permanently set softer bar. This will significantly bias the handling of vehicle when its at its on-road traction limits.

I know very little about off roading and can't comment on the manufacturers claims that its actually superior to a disconnected sway bar when off road. However I raced motorcycles and cars for the better part of 20 years when I was younger and have a very very good understanding of and practical experience applying suspension tuning concepts.

i have anti-rock on the front of my TJ and while it did create a different driving experience along with 4” of lift, it was an expected difference. IMO, anyone who is messing with their suspension in any way should absolutely be expecting different driving characteristics and thus drive accordingly. Such as with no sway, or anti-rock, take corners at a slower speed. Instead I see jeeps and lifted trucks everywhere still doing 90 on the highway with their phones out and driving recklessly. But I digress….anti-rock on my TJ made the ride significantly more comfortable. Now adding one to the rear also would certainly require slower driving as body roll already increased quite a bit. It also made for a positive change in handling off road. Im not sure, and not even concerned, about more traction due to flex but rather more concerned about comfort. And it allows the suspension to articulate according to road conditions much quicker and more accurately. So with the front disconnected on my gladiator rubi, it is also significantly more comfortable

i just wish somebody had a solution to incorporating a electronic rear sway disco - like how the front has.

Long story short, I ran that truck with no front swaybar for a long time - but (this is key) in combination with extremely heavy duty rear leafs with overloads,

having leaf springs, even on just the rear, is a huge difference than coils on all 4. My OBS 7.3 was listed and I remove sways on front and rear. It did make a difference, but not a significant one. Even in emergency maneuvers. Leafs tend to have a type of anti-roll incorporated with them only because there is little downtravel as compared to coils which means your lifting the whole wheel/axle off the ground in severe body roll situations.

 

[dcmdon]

i have anti-rock on the front of my TJ and while it did create a different driving experience along with 4” of lift, it was an expected difference. IMO, anyone who is messing with their suspension in any way should absolutely be expecting different driving characteristics and thus drive accordingly. Such as with no sway, or anti-rock, take corners at a slower speed. Instead I see jeeps and lifted trucks everywhere still doing 90 on the highway with their phones out and driving recklessly. But I digress….anti-rock on my TJ made the ride significantly more comfortable. Now adding one to the rear also would certainly require slower driving as body roll already increased quite a bit. It also made for a positive change in handling off road. Im not sure, and not even concerned, about more traction due to flex but rather more concerned about comfort. And it allows the suspension to articulate according to road conditions much quicker and more accurately. So with the front disconnected on my gladiator rubi, it is also significantly more comfortable

You've got the right attitude. Your jeeps on-road handling has been compromised by the anti-rock, and if you drive defensively and slowly, you can mitigate that for the most part.

But you are right about guys driving 90 in lifted trucks.

New Hampshire is the playground for Boston people. On Friday and Sunday you will see weekend people driving up I93. While there are lots of families in crossovers and minivans, you also see a lot of 3 kinds of vehicles in greater concentrations than normal.
1) The crunchy eco-freak in their Prius or Tesla. These are not "rugged" people. They are just up for a visit.
2) Liberal "rugged" folks in their Subaru CrossTreks - rock climbers, skiers, hikers.
3) Conservative "rugged folks" in their jacked up full sized HD diesel pickups. In the winter they are hauling enclosed snowmobile trailers at about 90 mph.

The drivers of these trucks are the most hideous obnoxious people imaginable. They will crawl up your bumper trying to intimidate you to move over when you are in a line of cars and going as fast as you can.

They don't use their turn signals, actually scratch that, none of them use their turn signals.

Where the macho truck guys are aggressively a55holish. The Tesla/Prius/Crosstrek drivers are more oblivious than anything else. "Oh, you want to go by me. you mean 57 mph in the left lane isn't enough?? So sorry".

In all seriousness, these macho truck drivers are the worst drivers on the road when I have the misfortune to be in the middle of this crowd.

p.s. to this group, F150s are for wussies. You need a lifted diesel F250/2500 on 22" rims with 35" tires and a pair of balls hanging off the trailer hitch if you want to run with these douches.

And then there's me and most of the jeeps in this group, in the right or right/middle lane with the cruise at 73 listening to the dead with the windows down. Ha.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

i just wish somebody had a solution to incorporating a electronic rear sway disco - like how the front has.

You really wouldn't gain much by doing so. Some builders have actually experimented with RTI ramp and having the rear connected disconnected, and found better flex with it connected.

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