Oil change at dealership led to huge engine problems

[dcmdon]

Techs can and do get paid for every minute they have into diagnosing a concern under warranty. Actual time labor ops exist for all OEM's. What they can't and should not do is spend hours trying to get a problem to occur. Either reproduce it problem so the tech can see what you are talking about or not. If you can't get it to do it when you drive it everyday why should the tech be able too? Everyone wants their vehicle fixed but if in the same shoes as the tech, you have to move on the the next problem if you can't replicate it. We submit thousands of warranty claims every month. I see this kind of stuff evey day. But for sure, techs get paid for their diag and even get paid for no problem found diag within 3/36.

Hank

If a tech spends an hour on diagnosis he gets paid for an hour.

If a tech spends an hour changing a part where the book time to change the part is 1.6 hours, he gets paid for 1.6 hours

Techs are paid more to change parts than they are to diagnose problems.

I don't have your experience, but when I was younger I worked my way up at a local Saab/Subaru dealership working as parts driver, parts counter, service writer, technician, salesman, F&I.

So I know how things work.

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[Hank_]

If a tech spends an hour on diagnosis he gets paid for an hour.

If a tech spends an hour changing a part where the book time to change the part is 1.6 hours, he gets paid for 1.6 hours

Techs are paid more to change parts than they are to diagnose problems.

I don't have your experience, but when I was younger I worked my way up at a local Saab/Subaru dealership working as parts driver, parts counter, service writer, technician, salesman, F&I.

So I know how things work.

That is a huge leap that you know for sure that tech has a customer pay job waiting that is going to pay him more. The techs rely on warranty dollars as much as they do customer pay dollars. Also if a tech installs a part and beats warranty time, which all good techs do, they get paid that time. If a labor op pays 6.0 hours for a tech to drop a trans and he can do it in three, he gets paid for the 6.0 hours. Your assertion that a tech will rush through your job just to work on the next allegedly better paying job simply is not true. Most techs do very well with warranty dollars and the customer pay is just icing on the cake. I have worked as a service writer and service manager. This type of misinformation is what causes a lot of issues on forums. It does not mean that your point never can happen, but it certainly is not the norm.

Hank

 

[ZoMojave]

Yeah he said the oil light came on. Could the tech: 1) put the O ring on wrong; 2) over tightened the cap; or 3) both? It’s only supposed to be 20nm I think.

Tech? I am doubting an actual technician did the oil change in the first place. Most dealers have an "express" or "quick" lube bay completely separate from where the certified techs perform service work. My dealer is no exception. I was watching that area once when I was there waiting for a part. Three high school age kids jump on a vehicle when it comes in the door and try to get it done as fast as they can. Not for me.

Please keep us posted on how everything goes for you OP. That really sucks.

 

[dcmdon]

You are confusing what I'm saying.

I'm not drawing a distinction between warranty and customer pay dollars.

I'm drawing a distinction between pure diagnostic work and "R and Ring" something.

One other thing. The local dealer I worked at didn't have "lube techs". Everyone was expected to do 60 to 90 minutes worth of oil changes first thing in the morning for the "waits". (people waiting for their car rather than dropping).

After that, the used car techs did oil changes. Used car techs were ASE certified mechanics, but had not gone for manufacturers' training.

Parts counter guys and service writers were expected to get there before the techs. Service writers would print out ROs for cars that had been dropped off over night and put them on the parts counter.

Parts guy would put a jug of oil, a filter, and a drain gasket on each RO so the tech just had to grab and go. If the car was a Saab or Subaru and was in for some repair work (warranty or customer pay) in addition to the LOF, the oil change was done by a manufacturer certified technician.

I remember once naively asking the owner if he would make more money if he was dishonest. HELL YES was his reply. But I make plenty as it is and we provide a service for this town. Crazy huh??

We were the only dealership within 15 miles in any direction other than a Chevy dealer about 3 miles away.

 

[Blade1668]

A little mud slinging... Car Fax is B.S. I keep getting emails telling me I'm overdue on oil change. But has noted that I had tires rotation done. AKA it doesn't recognize the oil change I add to online service log. But can find tire rotation by Walmart. ?
A past buddy that had a "Jeep" shop talked me into replacing oil pump in my XJ while replacing oil pan and rear main seal.... his semi trained employee F"ed up the job 36 miles later I had a boat anchor for a engine. A replacement short block of unknown quality wrong bolts in T. converter and other stuff. I'll not muddy Chris, he was dealing with cancer at the time and passed away. He had put a replacement engine in that Jeep at dealership under warranty at near end of warranty. ?‍ when he was their head mechanic.

 

[Hank_]

Tech? I am doubting an actual technician did the oil change in the first place. Most dealers have an "express" or "quick" lube bay completely separate from where the certified techs perform service work. My dealer is no exception. I was watching that area once when I was there waiting for a part. Three high school age kids jump on a vehicle when it comes in the door and try to get it done as fast as they can. Not for me.

Please keep us posted on how everything goes for you OP. That really sucks.

Again, why is this an issue? Those kids probably perform more oil changes in a week than you have in your lifetime. It seems like that is the type of person you want changing your oil. No dealership wants a customer to have a bad experience. To each his own but just because someone is young or considered a "lube tech" does in no way mean you are better than they are at performing an oil change. I have done plenty of oil changes on vehicles in my lifetime and it is a very simple task. Those "kids" do it every day all week long and should have a good deal of experience. I just hope people do not base there decisions on comments like this.

Hank

 

[ZoMojave]

Those kids probably perform more oil changes in a week than you have in your lifetime.

Not really. As an ASE certified tech for thirty years (retired), I have seen it ALL. From no oil in engines (and those vehicles coming back on a flatbed with a seized engine) to many vehicles coming off hoists due to the lift pads placed incorrectly on vehicle. One fell from the highest position and slammed down on the concrete (front first and then the rear) and literally bending the frame of a Buick LeSabre into a U-shape. Unfortunately, these are just two examples of what I have witnessed over the years. And each one involved a younger inexperienced person. Just my .02 cents.

 

[Hank_]

Not really. As an ASE certified tech for thirty years (retired), I have seen it ALL.

Well then you are the exception to the rule. You must be better at doing oil changes. Congrats and enjoy your Mojave. I know I love mine.

Hank

 

[ZoMojave]

And each one involved a younger inexperience person.

With that said, there was room for improvement in the training dept.

 

[Hank_]

With that said, there was room for improvement in the training dept.

The reason I bring all of this up as I have seen plenty of issues with guys with 20+ years of service experience. It is not an easy job. I have seen lug nuts missed tightening, coolant hose clamps not tightened, you name it. Just because someone is young or old does not matter if they are not paying attention or got distracted in the middle of a job. If you feel more comfortable doing your own oil changes then by all means do it. Just please don't paint dealers and techs with a wide brush saying they are good or bad based on their age. New vehicles can be a bitch to diag and repair with all the sensors and wiring on these things. I see guys loose more time than they make on plenty of repairs but stick it out to get it fixed. There are a lot of great techs and shops out there. Hopefully people will find ones that work for and with them.

Hank

 

[Maximus Gladius]

O ring probably upside down or backwards…anyway, be glad you don’t live in Calgary where they will tell you if it still works, it isn’t broken.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah he said the oil light came on. Could the tech: 1) put the O ring on wrong; 2) over tightened the cap; or 3) both? It’s only supposed to be 20nm I think.

Oil light on means hit the stop button post haste. Too many sit and wonder what to do or assume they have time. Nog saying that happened here but even 2 or 3 seconds with no op is bad news.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Some of the newer vehicles have the low pressure oil light going on at 10 psi. By the time the light comes on. The engine is toast.

On the Nissan VQ motors. If the gallery gaskets fails. The oil light comes on and the engine is dead.

Hmmm...10 psi is the norm and has been since at least the 60s.
Most op switches spec at 10 psi, some 8 to 10 psi. Normal, nuttin new.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

10,000 miles for first oil change

Yeah, so??? Heck, in the 70s with old school oil 7500 wasn't a big deal.
There are many variables.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I love the internet.

Mechanic = remove and replace parts
Technician = above and can perform in depth diagnostics/trouble shooting.

Computers and scan tools do not give a Tech all the answers. How many of you have legitimately conducted diagnostics on a CAN/BUS system.......IE, finding a bad 5v reference that's causing a erratic no start condition. (NOTE: the previous Mechanic threw the parts cannon at it (new battery, alternator, starter and throttle body)

Anyone wanna know where I found the problem????

Those are modern terms to make people feel better, recently defined. This mechanic is a troubleshooter that will run circles around most "techs". It's a feel good word. Makes the customer feel better

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