Oil change at dealership led to huge engine problems

[WILDHOBO]

It had to be bad............ and I'm surprised these didn't detect and warn of the lack of pressure. Like - no red light? No CEL for oil pressure loss?

Hell, even my 73 would tell me if I lost oil pressure before any damage was done. (I am a former tech so know how it all works - but no warning??)

The oil light WAS on. So it did report an oil issue.

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[WILDHOBO]

I'll repeat the story again so maybe others can learn from it.

In the late 80's my wife had a new Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. Took it to dealer for oil change and tire rotation. Tech rotated the tires while the oil drained. Then swapped out oil filter. Lowered lift and popped the hood, took off oil cap, stuck in funnel and poured in the required amount of oil. Put cap back on then hopped in to start. Never saw the puddle on the floor under the car. Motor seized almost instantly.

Dealership said they'd get it replaced under warranty, I said no, this is on you for using students unsupervised to work on cars. They aren't supposed to work without a fully certified Tech to check their work.
Dealership got huffy and I called the Olds Customer Service line and told them the story.

Dealership had to do the new engine themselves. Turned it in on their insurance. Service Writer got canned and dealership got a black mark from corporate.

Moral of the story is, the "free" oil changes aren't worth it because unqualified people are doing the work.

Can I like this post twice?

years ago I got an oil change at a Midas. I always stand outside the stall and watch. Correction, it’s been a long time since I’ve let anyone do an oil change for me. Zero trust. They drained it, changed the filter, and started it with no oil. It only ran for 30 seconds because I yanked the key out as the tech was trying to fight me off. He got let go on the spot. Thankfully it wasn’t long enough to damage it. I made sure it was documented on the ticket just in case. But it doesn’t take long. I was lucky to have been standing there.

 

[HooliganActual]

You know, as much as I wish that the oil change work wasn't being handed off to the least experienced person in the shop, it's a reality. But the real problem, IMHO, isn't that it is an "unqualified" person performing the work, rather it is distraction, inattention to detail, etc.

I try to do all of the maintenance and repairs on my 2 Wranglers and Gladiator when at all possible, but personally, I let the dealer change my oil so that i get the second set of eyes on my vehicle. I don't have the computer to hook it up to in order to pull codes for things that aren't obvious. And I'll also admit that sometimes I'm just too lazy to crawl under and wiggle ball joints and such. But every time I let them do the work I watch, and then I check their work afterwards...I won't pull off of the lot without checking the oil level and pressure.

Three weeks ago was my last oil change and I watched through the window. When the Anti-Friction Technician wasn't actively working on my vehicle (waiting for oil to drain), he was on his smart phone probably playing Candy Crush. Generally, that's where the real problem is: distractions...not knowledge or skill. I'm not trying to defend the dealers or service techs or trying to say folks are wrong to do it themselves, but I don't need an ASE "Blue Seal of Excellence" Technician to change the oil in my vehicle; I just need someone who will do the job correctly.

30 years ago I was having new tires put on my Cherokee by a nationwide tire store. The tech forgot to put the lugs on the passenger left and as I made the right hand turn to pull off the lot, I watched that brand new tire roll right by me. Now I always check to make sure the lugs are on after that type of work and then torque them at the first availability.

I think the real takeaway from this thread or any similar threads is the old latin phrase, "Caveat Emptor" (Buyer Beware). In my heart, I don't believe that this "lube tech" wakes up one morning and says "I'm going to ruin someone's engine today" but I'll also check his work if I'm able to ensure he didn't forget something...that's on me. Yes, I have every right to expect that when I'm paying the dealership $80 to change my oil that it should be done right; but shame on me if I don't verify that it was.

I'll probably get villified for this post. I'm not trying to be sanctimonious here; it's just that demonizing "dealerships" for making a mistake (that they shouldn't make admittedly) seems wrong. Now if they make that mistake and then blame me or don't own that mistake, by all means "string 'em up".

Just my $0.02 USD

 

[BLK HOLE]

I don't know when ASE decided to change from "Mechanic" to "Technician" but it seems things started going downhill after that change.

The guys with the "Mechanic" (or Master Mechanic) patches could walk up with a long screwdriver and go around the engine while it was running and tell you exactly where the knock or tap was.

Now the guys with "Technician (or Master Technician) can't tell you squat if the diagnostic computer doesn't tell them first.

You roll the dice in dealership service departments, the lube and tire rotation guys (kids) are generally ASE students from the local school. As I said before, they are SUPPOSED to work with either direct supervision or have all their work checked by a certified Tech. Doesn't happen, costs to much to have a Tech shadow a student.

I have a mechanic that has his own shop. He is an ASE certified Master Mechanic. Still proudly displays all his certs on the wall of his office. He doesn't have all the diagnostic equipment a dealership has and he won't work on the computer side of an engine. But I'll be damned if Mr. Old School can't diagnose something with a screwdriver correctly just about every time. I have taken his diagnosis back to the dealership on several occasions and VIOLA` they finally find the problem.

Dealer "techs" are no longer much a tech. Outside easy and minor troubleshooting...they report to a call in line and do what they're told and report the results and so on. They're a joke.

 

[Minty JL]

I love the internet.

Mechanic = remove and replace parts
Technician = above and can perform in depth diagnostics/trouble shooting.

Computers and scan tools do not give a Tech all the answers. How many of you have legitimately conducted diagnostics on a CAN/BUS system.......IE, finding a bad 5v reference that's causing a erratic no start condition. (NOTE: the previous Mechanic threw the parts cannon at it (new battery, alternator, starter and throttle body)

Anyone wanna know where I found the problem????

 

[HooliganActual]

Anyone wanna know where I found the problem????

Do tell

 

[Lunentucker]

I love the internet.

Mechanic = remove and replace parts
Technician = above and can perform in depth diagnostics/trouble shooting.

Computers and scan tools do not give a Tech all the answers. How many of you have legitimately conducted diagnostics on a CAN/BUS system.......IE, finding a bad 5v reference that's causing a erratic no start condition. (NOTE: the previous Mechanic threw the parts cannon at it (new battery, alternator, starter and throttle body)

Anyone wanna know where I found the problem????

I'm guessing it was in the led coil pack synthesizer diode sensor.

 

[Minty JL]

So the subject vehicle was a 2017 Chevy Traverse.

After lots of probing and testing............the 5v Ref. wire/pin going to the ABS module had excessive tension on it and was popping/pulling out of the harness connector. The way the harness was run behind the steering rack was the over all issue. Reroute, re-pin, tested/verify and ship it!

Working on and understanding wiring harness' and how a CAN/BUS system operates with the various modules is a lot to learn and master..........I'm not a Master either. I picked a direction to go with and worked through it and I just happened to pick the right path

 

[WillVra]

I’ve had good and bad a dealerships, both at Ford and Dodge.
I took a work truck in to Ford telling them that it was cranking more than normal to start, and after it started it would steam out of the tail pipe for a while then clear up. The truck only had 30000 or so miles and was fuel injected V6. Took it in 4 times they’d connect it to diagnostics and nothing every time. 5th trip I told them it ran rough after starting still steaming I told them I thought it had a cracked head but nope they found nothing, even kept it over the weekend couldn’t reproduce the same effects. I was off for a week got in to start the truck and it spun over and locked up, took a breaker bar on the crankshaft and backed it up and tried it again… yep she started and sounded like a diesel lots of steam. They replaced the engine cracked head between two cylinders.
That being said I think they are smart, they just don’t have mechanical aptitude, not all but most of them.

 

[Higher_Ground]

Glad they gave you a loaner.

Today marks 5 months my gladiator has been in the shop for repair after a relatively small collision.

Supposedly I'll be getting it back by the end of next week.

 

[Terry]

Don't forget possible depreciation due to this work on Carfax.

CarFax? CarFax is a long way from being any kind of a standard for used vehicle pricing and any person or business that uses their opinions as the sole denominator for a vehicles value is making a profit off of other peoples stupidity.

 

[Hank_]

I always get my oil changed at the dealership and fortunatly have had no issues. Oil filters do fail. I process warranty claims for Ford and Stellantis dealerships across the United States. I have worked in and around service departments for over 30 years. I seem to see a lot talk of how little techs know. Back when I first started driving cars they were carbureted and fairly simple to work on. I guess nowadays, especially on forums, if you can bolt on a lift kit or some fender flares you are smarter than a tech that has had years of classes and training. OEM techs take classes yearly to keep up on what is new and upcoming. They have to take classes in specific areas to be allowed to work on specific vehicle concerns. Every concern can not be figured out the first time because they have to verify the problem before they can fix it. I recommend to all my dealers, that when a customer comes in to get there vehicle repaired that the adviser puts either verified or unverified in the customers complaint. If the customer can't show the advser the issue they are having how is the tech supposed to reproduce the problem? It seems like people like to over simplify the job others do unless they are talking about the job they do. Then the excuses come out. People do make mistakes, we all do, but that in no way makes all dealerships bad and certainly does not make all techs bad. These are 1st world problems and I am thankful I have a dealership that I trust with my vehicle. It seems like it is best to let the shop diag and correct the concern. Then if there is an issue there can be something to discuss. Anyway, back to working on warranty claims.

Hank

 

[NC_Overland]

I love the internet.

Mechanic = remove and replace parts
Technician = above and can perform in depth diagnostics/trouble shooting.

Computers and scan tools do not give a Tech all the answers. How many of you have legitimately conducted diagnostics on a CAN/BUS system.......IE, finding a bad 5v reference that's causing a erratic no start condition. (NOTE: the previous Mechanic threw the parts cannon at it (new battery, alternator, starter and throttle body)

Anyone wanna know where I found the problem????

The dealership closest to me literally told me that they couldn’t/wouldn’t fix my “service 4wd light” because there isn’t an error code in the computer. I paused for a second and asked him “Are you saying that you don’t know how to fix it because there’s not an error code showing to read?” He said yes very matter of fact like that’s an acceptable answer.

This was while the service 4wd light was literally on in the dash and they gave it back to me with the light on.

 

[dcmdon]

I always get my oil changed at the dealership and fortunatly have had no issues. Oil filters do fail. I process warranty claims for Ford and Stellantis dealerships across the United States. I have worked in and around service departments for over 30 years. I seem to see a lot talk of how little techs know. Back when I first started driving cars they were carbureted and fairly simple to work on. I guess nowadays, especially on forums, if you can bolt on a lift kit or some fender flares you are smarter than a tech that has had years of classes and training. OEM techs take classes yearly to keep up on what is new and upcoming. They have to take classes in specific areas to be allowed to work on specific vehicle concerns. Every concern can not be figured out the first time because they have to verify the problem before they can fix it. I recommend to all my dealers, that when a customer comes in to get there vehicle repaired that the adviser puts either verified or unverified in the customers complaint. If the customer can't show the advser the issue they are having how is the tech supposed to reproduce the problem? It seems like people like to over simplify the job others do unless they are talking about the job they do. Then the excuses come out. People do make mistakes, we all do, but that in no way makes all dealerships bad and certainly does not make all techs bad. These are 1st world problems and I am thankful I have a dealership that I trust with my vehicle. It seems like it is best to let the shop diag and correct the concern. Then if there is an issue there can be something to discuss. Anyway, back to working on warranty claims.

Hank

The problem isn't that tech's dont know anything.

The problem is that with the way the flat rate system works, they are not paid to diagnose. Its far far more profitable for the tech when he gets to a problem either write "could not duplicate" on the RO or to change out the most obvious part and move on.

Like I said above. Sometimes a guy who can't solve a problem under a flat rate pay system would have no trouble solving the problem if its a side work job or its his mom's car.

All it takes is a commitment to put the time in to properly diagnose a problem. You track it from the symptom on back until you find the issue.

 

[Hank_]

The problem isn't that tech's dont know anything.

The problem is that with the way the flat rate system works, they are not paid to diagnose. Its far far more profitable for the tech when he gets to a problem either write "could not duplicate" on the RO or to change out the most obvious part and move on.

Like I said above. Sometimes a guy who can't solve a problem under a flat rate pay system would have no trouble solving the problem if its a side work job or its his mom's car.

All it takes is a commitment to put the time in to properly diagnose a problem. You track it from the symptom on back until you find the issue.

Techs can and do get paid for every minute they have into diagnosing a concern under warranty. Actual time labor ops exist for all OEM's. What they can't and should not do is spend hours trying to get a problem to occur. Either reproduce it problem so the tech can see what you are talking about or not. If you can't get it to do it when you drive it everyday why should the tech be able too? Everyone wants their vehicle fixed but if in the same shoes as the tech, you have to move on the the next problem if you can't replicate it. We submit thousands of warranty claims every month. I see this kind of stuff evey day. But for sure, techs get paid for their diag and even get paid for no problem found diag within 3/36.

Hank

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