Love Centerforce now. The new clutch is working great. Please Help. 2.5 weeks without my JT---F#$%ing Centerforce!

[KX L]

@Mtpisgah, @SteveInOrlando, @Bbannongmu, @CJXJJT, @NachoRubi, @bd100, @greg.appel, @bryanklay, @Gvsskier, @ACTman

BLUF [Bottom Line Up Front]. Is it performing like a normal clutch and not as described below? Do you have any feel of the clutch before engagement and how far is it down when you start feeling the engagement? Half way? How much engagement is there, more than 1.5 inches from the floorboard? How heavy is the clutch compared to stock? I have never ever felt such a weird clutch.

Nothing has kept me off the road/trails since I received my custom ordered 2022 JT Mojave through TriCity Jeep. But like a lot of you I've been super disappointed with the clutch and gearing. My Mojave rides on the stock wheels and tires but I've definitely added weight; front and rear LoD steel bumpers, AWE Tread Edition Dual Exhaust, Rock Slide Gen3 Step Sliders, Badland 12K nylon winch, a quite heavy multi-option tow hitch, ARB dual compressor, and a heavy recovery bag.

Despite having only clutch vehicles for the past 53 years the damn JT would slip and smell or just stall out weekly when backing up into the garage [and my driveway is flat!].

I've done every single thing above except mounting the ARB Compressor in the rear bed on the drivers side. So after reading all the wonderful reviews by you guys I went with the Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch and Flywheel Kit with their hydraulics. After watching the install videos I decided to have a very highly rated 4 wheel drive shop, AxleBoy, near me do the work. Dropped it off on Wednesday and they said up front it wouldn't be done until Thursday afternoon which got shifted to Friday. When I get there they give me the keys and I go out for my test drive. WTF!!!!

The clutch has 6-8 inches of absolutely NO feel and then a pretty hard 1.5 inches to the floor. Just thinking about moving the clutch back to engage it and it engages within a millimeter. Another 1.5 inches and again no feel at all just dead space to get my foot fully off the clutch. After confirming this over about 2 miles of shifting I went back and said it sucked and where is the guy who installed and passed it???

"Oh he's not in today." Fine give me any other mechanic to drive this thing around. Other mechanic drives it about two miles also stating it feels really weird and not at all like any clutch he's ever driven.

We agree that at least it works and I can have my truck for the weekend and bring it back in on Monday. So off I go. Thank God I-70 was a parking lot so I didn't get on it. I just stayed on the service road. 6 miles in I have to stop at a light. Shift to N and wait for the light. Green light---WTF!!! NO clutch pedal at all. I mean it I cant find it. It's completely disappeared.

So I figure I'll treat it like I do a Harley when a clutch isn't working right---I'll shove it in gear and shift without one until I get back to the shop. No joy whatsoever. JT will NOT allow a clutchless shift with the MT. So I shut the JT down and get out to find the clutch pedal. It is hard against the top of the footwell. I pull it back with 1 finger, barely any pressure at all, and it slams back in it's normal place. Touch it again with barely any pressure and it disappears again. And of course now the truck won't even start [ya big dummy]. I call Axleboy, within 30 minutes AAA is there and AxelBoy is offering me a rental car [turn it down as wife is heading out of town].

Monday I call and I'm told a clip holding a dowel pin in was missing but now it's fixed----but not really as it's acting the exact same as Friday. So please give us a day or two to figure it out. Wednesday I'm called by the owner of AxleBoy [IMO very good sign of a well managed shop is when a customer has an issue they ensure the boss is kept informed.]. He tells me he drove it and would never accept it. He wants to try to figure it out. I recommend get a new kit. But this guy is a gear head. So Thursday he calls and says he can't figure it out despite working with Centerforce so he called them and asked for a whole replacement kit. He was quite concerned to have to tell me Centerforce said no clutch kit until NEXT Thursday as they have to build it. I drive by Thursday morning to see him at the shop [people at the desk are great and call me by name and go get him. He said it was going to be delivered today [yesterday 2 Mar 2023] and I tell him I'm glad to hear it because he seems like a nice guy but I'm thinking about @%^$% him.

This morning he calls and says they have the new kit but every measurement they've taken since putting it together [but not installing it, just the two centerforce kits side by side] is exactly the same. He also sends me and copies the 5 guys at Centerforce he has been dealing with telling them why he's sending me the stuff. [Again, a straight up guy]. It's a list of emails and photos between him and Centerforce. He thinks it's not going to make a difference but I ask him to completely install the whole kit to specs and lets actually drive the damn thing---so that is now going to get done on Monday 5 Mar.

If you've read my tale of woe I am so appreciative. Scott the owner of AxleBoy asked if I could contact you guys that have the clutch to answer these questions.

Is it performing as I described? If not, do you have any feel of the clutch before engagement and how far is it down when you start feeling the engagement? Half way? How much engagement is there, more than 1.5 inches? How heavy is the clutch compared to stock? I have never ever felt such a weird clutch.

FYI I'm used to all sorts of clutches. A heavy clutch, [Freightliner Columbia truck], medium clutch [96 Camaro Z28 I owned for 22 years], heavy clutch [rotisserie rebuilt 70 Dodge Challenger RT SE with the 440 magnum and Dana 4.10 rear end] I owned in the 90's. And as a gearhead pretty much every US, European, and Asian light clutches.

What a disappointment. Scott is getting the impression via phone that Centerforce just wants to say its operating normally. One of the guys he talked to today literally told him that the clutch is really more for off road and rock climbing and those guys prefer to leave their heel on the floor at all times !?!

Guess what the number one of five reasons to get the clutch is, from the Centerforce's own sales page? 1. Is for Serious Street Performance!!!

ACTMan---if this doesn't get fixed you're probably next in line for a trial.

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[ACTman]

I wouldn't mind the sale, but what you are describing is an issue with the hydraulics, or operating system, not the internal clutch parts.

When there is no air in the lines and the system is working normal, as soon as you press your foot on the pedal the release bearing pushes against the diaphragm spring of the pressure plate and the diaphragm's force will return the pedal. What you describe tells me it only starts pressing on the diaphragm, then possibly just compresses an air bubble in the hydraulic system.

The reason the pedal stuck to the floor (until you lifted it) is that the only force on the pedal was the over center assist spring in the pedal assembly.

Air in the line is the most likely scenario. The hydraulics on the JL/JT is a pain to bleed properly. I will also send you a PM.

 

[loganjeeps]

Just chiming in to say sorry for your clutch woes, that really stunks. I also have driven clutches my whole life and when I got my JTR three weeks ago I was surprised and disoriented at that it feels like there is zero pedal pressure and no obvious engagement point. I've been re-learning how to drive this thing and then when in my other vehicles its like I'm pushing on a diving board. Still better than an auto . Hope you get a resolution soon.

 

[Gvsskier]

Centerforce KDF157077 Dual Friction clutch and flywheel is the kit I ordered in Sept of 2020 and received in March of 2021. Bryan Willson of Centerforce sent a letter advising that more testing and improvement was required before releasing to public. I had a shop swap out and install the clutch along with a new gear set 4:56 by Yukon. When I first drove it I also noticed the engagement point was low in the travel. I asked about adjusting it so it would be mid-travel and they suggested I drive it for a few days and see what I thought. After 250 to 300 kms it settled in and the engagement was mid travel and it’s been excellent since. I’m sure the keen mechanic you have working on it went through the entire clutch system but it’s worth doing it again and ensuring all air is out and fluids are secured.

 

[KX L]

When there is no air in the lines and the system is working normal, as soon as you press your foot on the pedal the release bearing pushes against the diaphragm spring of the pressure plate and the diaphragm's force will return the pedal. What you describe tells me it only starts pressing on the diaphragm, then possibly just compresses an air bubble in the hydraulic system.

Dirk,
You're brilliant.

And now I feel like a total fool. As a trained Harley mechanic any time we have clutch or brake issues that aren't immediately obvious we start with ensuring there is enough fluid and and it's properly bled.

 

[KX L]

Just chiming in to say sorry for your clutch woes, that really stunks. I also have driven clutches my whole life and when I got my JTR three weeks ago I was surprised and disoriented at that it feels like there is zero pedal pressure and no obvious engagement point. I've been re-learning how to drive this thing and then when in my other vehicles its like I'm pushing on a diving board. Still better than an auto . Hope you get a resolution soon.

Austin,
Same same when I first drove the JT MT. But like every new clutch it only took a couple of miles to be comfortable with it. I have this sticker on mine.

 

[KX L]

Centerforce KDF157077 Dual Friction clutch and flywheel is the kit I ordered in Sept of 2020 and received in March of 2021. Bryan Willson of Centerforce sent a letter advising that more testing and improvement was required before releasing to public. I had a shop swap out and install the clutch along with a new gear set 4:56 by Yukon. When I first drove it I also noticed the engagement point was low in the travel. I asked about adjusting it so it would be mid-travel and they suggested I drive it for a few days and see what I thought. After 250 to 300 kms it settled in and the engagement was mid travel and it’s been excellent since. I’m sure the keen mechanic you have working on it went through the entire clutch system but it’s worth doing it again and ensuring all air is out and fluids are secured.

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. If it is a really small travel at first I'll definitely not immediately take it back.

 

[Minty JL]

After reading top to bottom.......I agree with the others here. It's air in the system or poorly bled. Might as well have them flush the whole system with the new clutch.

This should be an easy fix. If the shop if using Mitchell, the procedures for bleeding the clutch system are in there.

 

[AustinL911]

Yea, it's already been said, but this absolutely screams hydraulic problem. I've yet to bleed a JT's system, so I can't speak to the complexity. But I'd start there.

 

[Bbannongmu]

I have the CF dual friction and love it. I had Keystone 4x4 install it and they said it was difficult to bleed the hydraulics. Then I put in the CF hydraulics later (I had an early production clutch kit) and my local mechanic McComsey Automotive bled it and he also noted how much of a PIA it wax to properly bleed.

From my experience, a properly installed CF Dual Friction clutch, flywheel and hydraulics results in a stiffer clutch pedal, take up/engagement in the middle of the travel (vs the stock top of the at. Engagement), zero slippage or smell, and the biggest bonus is that I can start/back up with zero throttle if I want - the stock clutch would stall without a fair amount of throttle.

My CF clutch has been bullet proof, I tow a ATV trailer 100 miles with no issues, I drove 5,600 miles from PA to Yellowstone and back. I creeped in bumper to bumper traffic on a hill for 30 minutes in Cincinnati after a Reds game. On the same trip I did some rock crawling in S.Dakota one day in the morning and then drove 500 miles to Cody, WY the same day.

I hope you get this sorted out. I’m pretty confident if it’s a Centerforce, they’ll bend over backwards to make it right ( I was on a first name basis with them during COVID)

good luck!

 

[KX L]

Sparticus,
Everything you wrote is exactly why I went with the Centerforce. I have a lot more faith in thinking it's just not been bled properly.

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer.

 

[CJXJJT]

Chiming in a little late but, definitely looks like hydrolics.

 

[Mtpisgah]

We have no complaints about ours. It feels so much better than the OEM clutch.
I would say engagement is in the 1st quarter off the floor.

I agree with others that it sounds like you have a bleed issue. We had a similar issue with the OEM clutch one time. We picked it up from the steelership for warranty work. The clutch went to the floor and you had to pull it up. I told our salesman who was there to try it. The expression on his face was priceless. They fixed it, but about two months later I replaced it.

 

[SteveInOrlando]

ok, I have the centerforce, but not the dual action one. My feel is like every other clutch I have had in my life except the stock one for this JT.

I have clutch feel throughout the push and you begin getting engagement quickly off the floor. Most highway shifts the pedal never fully reaches the floor.

As for the backing up the driveway thing, sorry this won't help with that. That is because they needed the reverse to work in 4 Lo for the Rubicons. So if you don't have it in 4 Lo, you really have to rev it up to go backwards up a hill, or in sand! That is just a JT thing.

What you described is more than likely the clutch wasn't bled correctly. It is not normal behavior!

 

[Mtpisgah]

As for the backing up the driveway thing, sorry this won't help with that. That is because they needed the reverse to work in 4 Lo for the Rubicons. So if you don't have it in 4 Lo, you really have to rev it up to go backwards up a hill, or in sand! That is just a JT thing.

I disagree with this. My wife’s JLR will back up on our steep driveway…idling. It is great.

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