Pentastar 3.6 Recall On Lash Adjusters, Allegedly

[N8Dizzle]

I've got a JT 3/22 build and mine is at the dealership for the 2nd time with 14k miles. First time at about 9800 miles for intake cam replacement on right side/ 6 rockers / 6 LA's. Currently in the shop for the 2nd time at 14k with cam error code and tech is ripping into it. Have a 22' JL with zero problems. Seems hit or miss. Mine started with a quiet tick at first and eventually turned into a helicopter sound as it progressed. Could not be heard at idle, usually above 2500 RPM's.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Called my dealer, and said my vin was good to go.

They called me back no more than a minute later and said there is a RRT in place that affects my vin (10/22 build), and it is an hour-long computer flash that they do in their express bay. I'll get more info when I go on Monday for it. I did not ask if it was directly related to the lash adjusters but I will check.

I sort of wonder if that's the one that addresses misfires. There were issues with hot start misfires. Will be interesting to see the number on that one.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

A lot of good comments, but the facts may be getting obscured a bit with all the follow-on discussions.

Background: My wife scheduled to have a door handle replaced which had some CVD finish peeling off. --no big deal, but it was sharp and on principle. The part came in and they called a couple times to schedule the replacement. The day I posted this original thread, the SA had called again to schedule the door handle change and also said there was on open recall (her words not mine). We had never complained about any tick or noise at all. Our pentastar is silent. The dealer has never seen or heard our JT since we drove off the lot. They brought it up and are attempting to schedule the LA recall work at the same time as the door handle. I will be rejecting the LA work for the time being.

The details shared herein, were translated from the original and a follow-up conversation with the SA. She was neither well versed nor particularly technical, but genuinely wanted to help. I pressed and she was kind enough to share what she did. Let's take it at face value until meaningful documentation comes to light.

Solution: We need to dissect and measure/compare the new Intake LA to the legacy LA and see if there's an actual design change, or, if this subject recall is intended to remedy nothing more than a manufacturing material or clearance defect, affecting some statistically significant number of pentastars sold within the approx. time frame she described to me.

If we have a significant LA design change, well then, maybe we have something else to act upon.

Otherwise, with 11 million pentastars driving around, and less than 1/10,000% ever developing a cam/LA issue, we are all in good shape still. It is also good to hear feedback from the taxi men saying ALL pentastars essentially run forever, with a minority needing an occasional cam-follower change --and still then running forever after. Pentastars are durable, efficient, and long lasting engines.

 

[Charles 236]

"Stuff like this" is often "over-blown". Not saying this is a total nothing, but that when people hear the word "recall" they freak out. It's not like it sounds.
And the numbers are quite limited.
I've got 11,000 miles on my 06/24/2022 built JT and it's never sounded any louder than any 3.6 we've ever owned. That's at least 4 so far, perhaps 5, I'd have to see if one of our Grand Cherokees was a 2015 or a 2016, I can't recall now. But we've had 2018, 2021, and for the JT - 2020 and 2022.
That's 2018, 2020, 2021 and 2022 built 3.6s and no unusual sounds. (should I insert "so far" to fit the agenda??)
These aren't quiet, there are quieter engines out there, but then it's been my experience that if taken "in genera" and over time, the V6 by its nature isn't a very quiet engine compared to some anyway. OTOH, my 4.0 is much more noisy.
I wonder about this part - we have multi-part followers on the intakes, and that high lift piece appears to be free to move a bit - against spring pressure. Meaning it could leave the cam lobe just enough to make a slap under certain conditions. If I end up with a valve cover off, I want to test my theory on that. My gut tells me that the multi-piece intake follower isn't going to be the most quiet system in the world.
I really had no reservations about trading one JT for another last year. Odds are in my favor.
2020 seems so far to have been the worst of the model years for JT as far as cam issues. Things sort of came to a head, and have slowly dropped down. You don't see the numbers that were seen "back then".

These have a bit of "mechanical lash" when in the high lift mode - until the lash adjuster takes it out. So when switching modes, there has to be some play to allow the pin to be pushed out by the spring, locking the follower into high lift mode. That play exists until or unless the lash adjuster expands, taking it out.

In low lift mode, that center high lift follower floats against spring pressure. Possible sound coming from this in low lift mode as the center high lift piece floats up and down on the cam's center lobe - only spring pressure holding it against the cam's center lobe, perhaps noise generated here?

Seems like only you and me, and MAYBE one or two other people don't fear these 3.6 Pentastar upgrade engines. I was working in the dealership when both the original Pentastar and the Pentastar upgrade engines came out, and currently have both a Charger and a Gladiator with the 3.6. I have seen so few failures in these engines, based just on the number of 3.6s built, that I had absolutely no worries over buying two MY '22 vehicles with the Pentastar.

Your understanding of the lash in the VVL is correct, the high lift arm "floats" against the high lift cam lobe until the lock pin is actuated. So there are times when it can "tap" against the lobe in low lift mode, where these engines actually spend most of the time running.

If people actually understood the odds against cam failure, there probably wouldn't be much reason for forums. It seems that about one third of the posts are something along the lines of "This piece of ____ is in the shop again". I'm not saying that these Jeeps are incapable of giving trouble, just that the problems are not as common as the internet makes them seem.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Solution: We need to dissect and measure/compare the new Intake LA to the legacy LA and see if there's an actual design change, or, if this subject recall is intended to remedy nothing more than a manufacturing material or clearance defect, affecting some statistically significant number of pentastars sold within the approx. time frame she described to me.

Likely won't see a design change since it's impacting only a very short run - not even 1 year's worth. Sounds like a possible defect more than anything.
If it's a design change - why not all 3.6 engines going backwards from April 2023? Why not 2020 MY?
Isn't logical to come up with a solution and not apply it to engines built prior to June 2022 and for that matter, all even in that June to April timeframe.
Mine is not included, yet it was built in that time period.
My bet - it's for specific VINs that may have received defective parts.
Been in the auto business too long for this to feel right about being a design change. A design change also would REQUIRE a different part number suffix.
We could ask Benny when the lash adjuster part number changed from 5047883AB to 5047883AC
That's not a big change at all - pretty minor revision change.
So if the AC part number came out in 2022, it's not that.

 

[willys 41]

I have a 2020 3.6 and it ticked from day one
Sounds like only two lifter are ticking
I have 17K on it now and it is about the same as when I purchased it new
I have looked for aftermarket solution like lifters and rockers put have not found anything
I will be watching this thread for a solution

 

[Jakeyou]

Things that are called recalls won't be on the NHTSA site. Don't link the fact that it's not out there in the govt's site as it not being a "recall". MOPAR will call it that, but it's more of a rapid response thing. Dealers will call it a recall - but it's not how recalls are typically defined.
I had a "recall" bulleting done on mine and it was simply a customer satisfaction rapid response bulletin. The dealership listed it as "recall" on the paperwork. But you'll never ever see it as a recall on any web site.
It's a matter of semantics.
In short - the dealership is calling it a "recall" but it's not really a recall as most reasonable people think of a recall.


As far as noise - consider that the intake follower is multiple piece and when it's in the low lift mode, the high lift center section sort of "floats" on the cam - IMO, looking over the design and how these operate, they aren't going to be really quiet.
The 3.6 when operating NORMALLY is not necessarily going to be as quiet as many other engines.



Lash adjusters can bleed down like the hydraulic lifters in an old-school V8. It may take time for the cooler thicker oil to fill them and take the lash out of the valve train. A bit of noise at first startup isn't an issue as long as it disappears in a short time.

Every 3.6 we've ever owned has been quieter than some of our other engines. My 4.0s have always sounded like "truck engines" as a friend describes the sound. 3.6 is real quiet compared to my current 4.0.

June 2022 - which part of June? "since June" could be a build date of June 1st or June 30th, which is it? Does it include those built in June?

As far as non-Gladiator - aren't the Grand Cherokee engines built in a different facility? JT engines are built in Mexico, what about the Grand Cherokee or other 3.6's?

Yes the Grand Cherokee 3.6 is built at trenton engine in Michigan and has the PS head that is called the classic head. The JT head built in Mexico has the new head called the PSU.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have a 2020 3.6 and it ticked from day one
Sounds like only two lifter are ticking
I have 17K on it now and it is about the same as when I purchased it new
I have looked for aftermarket solution like lifters and rockers put have not found anything
I will be watching this thread for a solution

Don't hold your breath. I have no idea what you are thinking, but there isn't "a solution" or "the solution".
If it's ticking bad, get it to a dealer for repairs.
Otherwise, know that some of these simply tick.
It depends on how loud it is, etc.
Aftermarket? Sorry, gotta chuckle as there sure isn't going to be anything there.
A "tick" can be a bad or worn cam, bad or worn follower, bad or worn lash adjuster or even other possible issues.
It's not like you are going to find someone pop in and say "here's a fix" or "here's the fix - go buy these parts and put them in".
Ain't gonna happen.
Read back over 3 years of posts about "ticking engines" and you'll find hundreds of posts - do some searching and deep reading and you'll see it will be a waste of time to "follow this thread for a solution".
The solution is to take it in to a dealer for repairs - or - let it ride and see if it gets worse.
Sounds to me like it's a big nothing since you say it's not changed in 17,000 miles and 3 years.
If it bugs you, take it to a shop.

Yes the Grand Cherokee 3.6 is built at trenton engine in Michigan and has the PS head that is called the classic head. The JT head built in Mexico has the new head called the PSU.

And yet people hop in a Stellantis vehicle with a 3.6 and seem amazed when it behaves differently.
Different tunes, some parts will be different, and more.

 

[Hootbro]

Don't hold your breath. I have no idea what you are thinking, but there isn't "a solution" or "the solution".
If it's ticking bad, get it to a dealer for repairs.
Otherwise, know that some of these simply tick.
It depends on how loud it is, etc.
Aftermarket? Sorry, gotta chuckle as there sure isn't going to be anything there.
A "tick" can be a bad or worn cam, bad or worn follower, bad or worn lash adjuster or even other possible issues.
It's not like you are going to find someone pop in and say "here's a fix" or "here's the fix - go buy these parts and put them in".
Ain't gonna happen.
Read back over 3 years of posts about "ticking engines" and you'll find hundreds of posts - do some searching and deep reading and you'll see it will be a waste of time to "follow this thread for a solution".
The solution is to take it in to a dealer for repairs - or - let it ride and see if it gets worse.
Sounds to me like it's a big nothing since you say it's not changed in 17,000 miles and 3 years.
If it bugs you, take it to a shop.

That is a sad but true statement on the reality. Between the Hemi 5.7's and the Pentastar 3.6L of all generations, there has been a prevalent tick issue that never seems to get resolved with each successive model year or generation change.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That is a sad but true statement on the reality. Between the Hemi 5.7's and the Pentastar 3.6L of all generations, there has been a prevalent tick issue that never seems to get resolved with each successive model year or generation change.

And that's a bit baffling to me....... different generations, different cam profiles, different followers and so on. So what's common?
Lash adjusters? Sure the gen II 3.6 has the dual-lift intake and lash adjusters, but is the heart of them the same?
We'll likely never know.
I only hope I know to determine the difference between accepted/normal/that's the way it is vs. oops, we have a problem. I also hope I don't ever find out if I can tell.

 

[ATL_Rubi]

That is a sad but true statement on the reality. Between the Hemi 5.7's and the Pentastar 3.6L of all generations, there has been a prevalent tick issue that never seems to get resolved with each successive model year or generation change.

Even before Pentastar, my 3.8 had ticks, did it lead to the short block replacements? Perhaps... dealer never gave me the exact cause but I ended up with metal shards in the cylinders and sheared cylinder walls twice. The dealer blamed low oil (followed oil change every 3k as noted for the 3.8) but I'm convinced it was something else. Replaced free of charge twice. I likely won't be able to go in for this RRT until later in the week but will keep everyone update.

 

[saintpauljeff]

I'm getting my next Jeep Wave oil change on Monday, I think I'm going to bring this up at that time

of course the dealer had no comment when I brought up the topic at hand no active TSB for my VIN either

I wanted to have them hear the issue, which would have been tough since the truck was already warmed up. Hoping someone in this forum comes up with something conclusive...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A cold start tick that disappears in a couple of minutes wouldn't really bug me. But then I guess years of all sorts of engines and vehicles has made me more forgiving on things that don't progress and aren't any worse than other normal engines I've had.

Wish I could re-find the video of the 4.0 in my SX4 I put on youtube years ago. click click click.....normal.

 

[LouisvEarlleJT]

Wish I could re-find the video of the 4.0 in my SX4 I put on youtube years ago. click click click.....normal.

I had a 96 Cherokee with the 4.0, whole time I owned it there was a consistent tick. Well past 200k when I sold it (talk about regret) still ticking away.

I told folks it was a feature, not a bug ?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I had a 96 Cherokee with the 4.0, whole time I owned it there was a consistent tick. Well past 200k when I sold it (talk about regret) still ticking away.

I told folks it was a feature, not a bug ?

4.0 - takes a licking and keeps on ticking.

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