Bumper retaining bolt torque

[chorky]

Really sorry I didn’t notice this until now. Been really buried in dirt projects and my bumper modification. I did not use any torque specs when installing mine. I used my impact wrench at a low setting, probably around 100 ft lbs. nothing broke. I used warn’s bolts and have winched in severe situations over and over. It’s really strong.

No worries. Did you have grade 8 boule bolts out were they grade 5 zinc coated carriage bolts. Wondering if i got a bad set. i am willing to bet i would have broken all the rest of I kept going

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[Dougstdig]

That's a real cheap-out on the bolts, IMO, for a bumper that IS the winch mount.
Thankfully, my winch isn't depending on such bolts although the factory bumper bolts are more than adequate.
The bumper shown is literally pulling against those bolts when using a winch.

True, but don’t forget the 4 cross bolts that go into the frame plus another 4 on the rear of the winch plate (back on the plate). The sheer strength should far exceed the capacity of the winch. Grade 5 should be way more then adequate. Don’t forget the measly bolts that attach the winch to the actual plate. On those, they’re mostly using sheer strength…and are only torqued to 35ish lbs.

 

[chorky]

he plate. I can’t remember how many my warn has…either 2 or 4. The sheer strength should far exceed the capacity of the winch. Don’t forget the measly bolts that attach the winch to the actual plate. On those, they’re mostly u

What cross bolts are you talking about??

The brackets that tie into the bumper bottom and then into where the factory sway disco skid on the frame are also not bent correctly. They are also carriage bolts. So I will have to find a way to bend 1/4" steel to match the lines of everything. I'm expecting to break 4 more carriage bolts and probably will have to go back to the hardware store for more. I'll try and get that on later this week. I can't get grade 8 for those bolts because they have to be carriage, and the sore does not have grade 8 carriage bolts, and there is not accessibility. So well see how that goes. I was BARELY lucky to get a pair of small small adjustable wrench behind to hold the bolts while tightening the nut. Only went to 75 lb ft because even those just had that not so good feel to them.

Fortunately the bolts for the winch come from the winch manufacturer so I am hoping I just got a bad set of carriage bolts from Warn. Still... I'm blown away they do not use grade 8.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Don’t forget the measly bolts that attach the winch to the actual plate. On those, they’re mostly using sheer strength…and are only torqued to 35ish lbs.

Those should be better than grade 5 IMO.
I suppose it depends on the bumper design, but you may have that winch line run out to a snatch block and then back again, which would reduce the load on the winch itself and reducing the load on both or either by using other tools. No need to always have that full load on one point.

Your points are well-taken, just bugs me, though, to see bumper bolts that break like that, and only grade 5.

Heck, the front end of my car is put together better than that LOL

 

[chorky]

mper design, but you may have that winch line run out to a snatch block and then back again, which would reduce the load on the winch itself and reducing the load on both or either by using other tools. No need to always have that full load on one point.

Your points are well-taken, ju

100% agree. I mean with a 12K winch, and a snatch block, you could easily have a 20,000 pound pull. I'm thinking back at an all those videos of people slamming on their bumper in MOAB. Or pulling SUPER hard. ... it scares me now that I see what Warn has for this bumper. Even the road armor bumper I got for the rear had grade 8 bolts (I think, man now I need to go look at those too).

I think I will try to find grade 8 for the winch. No freaking way I want measly grade 5's on a 12K winch. thats craziness.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My winch plate bolts behind the frame's bumper mounting ears - no way it's going anywhere.
I'd likely pull the winch off the plate, first.
The winch plate is against the rear of the frame ears, then there's the sides of the plate that bolt to the sides of the frame using grade 8 bolts. No way that plate is ever going anywhere. It can't.
But - I suppose I could pull the winch off the plate?

 

[Dougstdig]

What cross bolts are you talking about??

The brackets that tie into the bumper bottom and then into where the factory sway disco skid on the frame are also not bent correctly. They are also carriage bolts. So I will have to find a way to bend 1/4" steel to match the lines of everything. I'm expecting to break 4 more carriage bolts and probably will have to go back to the hardware store for more. I'll try and get that on later this week. I can't get grade 8 for those bolts because they have to be carriage, and the sore does not have grade 8 carriage bolts, and there is not accessibility. So well see how that goes. I was BARELY lucky to get a pair of small small adjustable wrench behind to hold the bolts while tightening the nut. Only went to 75 lb ft because even those just had that not so good feel to them.

Fortunately the bolts for the winch come from the winch manufacturer so I am hoping I just got a bad set of carriage bolts from Warn. Still... I'm blown away they do not use grade 8.

If you’re talking bolts for just the bumper, you should be fine with stock bolts. The end of Shadowsppa’s post…he was referring to the addition of a winch plate. Since the front of the winch plate ties into 4 of the 8 front mounting locations…at least for the Warn mounting plate…there are an additional 8 bolts tiring it all together. I think I was editing the post you quoted from me when you were responding…

 

[Lunentucker]

In case someone stumbles across this thread in the future and doesn't know.

 

[chorky]

My winch plate bolts behind the frame's bumper mounting ears - no way it's going anywhere.
I'd likely pull the winch off the plate, first.
The winch plate is against the rear of the frame ears, then there's the sides of the plate that bolt to the sides of the frame using grade 8 bolts. No way that plate is ever going anywhere. It can't.
But - I suppose I could pull the winch off the plate?

yeah. Im pretty frustrated by this quality issue.

these are the bolts that came with my winch

If you’re talking bolts for just the bumper, you should be fine with stock bolts. The end of Shadowsppa’s post…he was referring to the addition of a winch plate. Since the front of the winch plate ties into 4 of the 8 front mounting locations…at least for the Warn mounting plate…there are an additional 8 bolts tiring it all together. I think I was editing the post you quoted from me when you were responding…

I could have tried reusing the stock bolts but once those broke on me i wanted better. And the stock bolts might not have fit because theyre longer. I had a hard time getting the ones i bough in the holes and they were shorter than the ones that came with warn

 

[XraytecH]

You mean these bolts?

 

[chorky]

In case someone stumbles across this thread in the future and doesn't know.

this is what warn provided. No clue what these markings mean

it is interesting their other bolts that i didnt use are 8. I really am not certain what these ones are even fore. The instructions are pretty terrible. I think they are for the bottom brackets that tie into the frame. But since I had rivet-nuts in there I just re-used the factory hardware.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

In case someone stumbles across this thread in the future and doesn't know.

Class being the metric "version of" our "grade" system.
I got familiar with fasteners of all sorts as my father worked in a factory (UAW member) and the bolts and stuff he picked up off the floor after his shift. They were not allowed to pick things up during work and use it - if it dropped, it stayed. Takes too much time to pick it up. But later, things in the trash were fair game if you got a permission slip.
Then my first job aside from the AMC shop was a hardware store - inventory in those days was COUNT IT BY HAND and write it down. You learned quickly or inventory took forever (or you gave customers the wrong stuff)

 

[chorky]

If you’re talking bolts for just the bumper, you should be fine with stock bolts. The end of Shadowsppa’s post…he was referring to the addition of a winch plate. Since the front of the winch plate ties into 4 of the 8 front mounting locations…at least for the Warn mounting plate…there are an additional 8 bolts tiring it all together. I think I was editing the post you quoted from me when you were responding…

maybe I'm a tad confused? So the warn bumper only uses 6 main bolts to the frame. Not 8. They also say in the instructions to discard the two inner frame gussets - which I find odd, probably due to cutting the frame for those using the zeon series winches. On the bottom end, there are two bracket, each side, that tie into the frame. So 4 more bolts each side. So theres a total of 8 bolts there. for a grand total of 14 bolts. But I think the 4 carriage bolts on the bottom side are going to end up braking. Just a hunch since the brackets there dont line up well and will result in some metal bending as things tighten down.

Thats also the same spot where the bottom skid attaches too as well. So that is going to be a very difficult group of bolts to do a final torque on.

 

[chorky]

@Lunentucker @ShadowsPapa @Summitdan @Dougstdig @XraytecH

Thanks fellas for pitching in the convo

 

[WILDHOBO]

maybe I'm a tad confused? So the warn bumper only uses 6 main bolts to the frame. Not 8. They also say in the instructions to discard the two inner frame gussets - which I find odd, probably due to cutting the frame for those using the zeon series winches. On the bottom end, there are two bracket, each side, that tie into the frame. So 4 more bolts each side. So theres a total of 8 bolts there. for a grand total of 14 bolts. But I think the 4 carriage bolts on the bottom side are going to end up braking. Just a hunch since the brackets there dont line up well and will result in some metal bending as things tighten down.

Thats also the same spot where the bottom skid attaches too as well. So that is going to be a very difficult group of bolts to do a final torque on.

Those brackets are meant to bend a bit. Tighten the 6 main bumper bolts first, after just starting those 8 tying the winch plate to the frame horns. Those are meant to pull a bit, as they are what prevent any distortion when winching. They won’t break. They’re meant to be bracing connections.

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