going in for various warranty repairs

[Keyappstate]

sending my 2022 in for various warranty repairs next week. i get a random "pcm overcharge" error sometimes that shuts off my radio (jeep dealers current way of dealing with this is "if it happens again call us we dont know why its happening", the output seal on the tcase is leaking gear oil, rear window glass is leaking water, rear passenger seatbelt locks out if you try to use it (cant get my kids carseat in), and they just called me for some kind of tailgate handle recall. 8500 miles of mine. not exactly a smooth first year of ownership.

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[Zachattack50]

Sounds like just some nuisance stuff. Hopefully they get you sorted out. 8500 miles in a year, I wish we put on that few, lol our 22 just rolled 23k miles.

 

[RJinPV]

I hope the repairs go smoothly for you. My 7 month old 2023 has over 7,000 miles on it and no warranty work so far, except for them getting the front end alignment right. It was delivered with toe measurements out of spec.

 

[Keyappstate]

Sounds like just some nuisance stuff. Hopefully they get you sorted out. 8500 miles in a year, I wish we put on that few, lol our 22 just rolled 23k miles.

mostly yeah, although the PCM issue could rear it’s ugly head in the future. Fingers crossed it was just a gremlin that went away. Still pretty annoying that the rear glass leaks rain water right out of the factory, as well as the tcase seals.

 

[Hootbro]

You get any other modules reporting a overcharge? The reason I ask is that the PCM acts as the voltage regulator for the alternator.

 

[Keyappstate]

You get any other modules reporting a overcharge? The reason I ask is that the PCM acts as the voltage regulator for the alternator.

I'm aware of what it does. no, nothing else triggers an overcharge error. so it is weird. there is some sort of safety built into the entertainment screen to turn itself off when the overcharge signal is triggered, which sucks because I usually have to wait a while before it will all turn back on. its happened twice now, but its been a few thousand I=miles since it happened last.

 

[Keyappstate]

local deal finally got me in for warranty work inspection..

as with most dealers now they dont even do glass installation so they ordered a whole new back glass and are having a local shop put it in. fine with me. they also did the tailgate handle recall while i was in.

my only concern now is, that the tranny tech told me the "oil" i see coming out of the back on the tranny is assembly grease dripping out after it heated up.. i am a well versed mechanic and i know what ATF is. i was very unhappy with this diagnosis and i made sure the ticket reflected that answer. im sure ill be back for the same issue.

 

[Sandevino]

I hope the repairs go smoothly for you. My 7 month old 2023 has over 7,000 miles on it and no warranty work so far, except for them getting the front end alignment right. It was delivered with toe measurements out of spec.

I always take my vehicles in for an alignment a few weeks after purchase. It may be dead on but I want it in writing.

 

[Minty JL]

I hope the repairs go smoothly for you. My 7 month old 2023 has over 7,000 miles on it and no warranty work so far, except for them getting the front end alignment right. It was delivered with toe measurements out of spec.

Yeah 8 months in with my '23 JTM and I'm at 9500 miles.

AS I knock on wood, it has not been any place but on the road, off road or in my driveway since I took delivery.

 

[Keyappstate]

just doing my period parts failure update. 14k miles on the jeep now and the alternator has gone out, at least according to the dealer. dash lit up like christmas the other day and vehicle shut down on safety "find a safe place to park, vehicle shutting off". they ran some load tests on it and have determined the alt is overcharging. im not really sure how that works, to my understanding the PCM should keep that in check. guess i will see.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

just doing my period parts failure update. 14k miles on the jeep now and the alternator has gone out, at least according to the dealer. dash lit up like christmas the other day and vehicle shut down on safety "find a safe place to park, vehicle shutting off". they ran some load tests on it and have determined the alt is overcharging. im not really sure how that works, to my understanding the PCM should keep that in check. guess i will see.

Voltage regulation is built into the PCM - it's been that way since the 1990s but at least it's a smarter system now.
An alternator can't overcharge unless the PCM is sending too much current through the rotor (the field in an alternator).
So.......... if the PCM is saying voltage is high it should be cutting field current.
Logic then says that the PCM can't do that and it's lost control.
The other other thing is that if this is a typica Chrysler alternator, it's a field type A which means there's always full voltage to the field and the regulation is controlled by grounding the other field terminal. In that case, the PCM side of the field could be grounded, effectively full-fielding the alternator at all times regardless of the PCM's decision.

(Type B field has one leg grounded and the regulator supplies the current to the field)

I'll assume that these are field type A - in that case they need to unplug the PCM side of the field and see if the alternator settles down - in that case it should not be doing anything - no charge at all.

They didn't really need a load test to determine if it's over-charging. A simple volt meter would tell them that. Depending on the ambient temperature under the hood and the temp of the IBS, it shouldn't exceed about 14.7 if there's a load like low batteries. These will range from about 12.6 to 15.0 - the 15.0 being when it's cold outside, like 40 degrees or colder.

I have a really funny feeling, odd as it may seem, that most dealerships don't have techs that know charging systems or troubleshooting beyond what a book tells them.........

The only other thing I can think of is a blown/shorted diode in the output side - the stator side of things. A shorted diode will throw any system with a PCM and EFI into a real tizzy. There will be spikes and very uneven voltage that electronics hate.
But again, easy to diagnose with a scope - look for a really even mild ripple, even output.

This is with my old scope which finally died a horrible death and an old-school alternator on the bench (1970 Motorola from an AMX) but this is an indication of perfectly working diodes. Modern should be at least this good, very even pattern is the thing to look for.

Chances are I'm about the only one left in the country that still scopes alternators...................

i am a well versed mechanic and i know what ATF is.

Then you also know this stuff goes in green and changes color pretty quickly.
Not red, not green, more like this -

There is a history of the protection that's put on these getting hot and dripping out. It's a similar color to transmission fluid, I'd say pretty much the same color depending on age and other factors.
Leaks on these are rare unless you drive a 4xe and then you can count on it at the rear, between transmission and transfer case, coming from the rear of the pan area.

Better hope it's not THIS particular leak.........

(Somewhere I have pictures of that substance being tossed from the flexplate area of a Jeep.)

 

[Keyappstate]

Voltage regulation is built into the PCM - it's been that way since the 1990s but at least it's a smarter system now.
An alternator can't overcharge unless the PCM is sending too much current through the rotor (the field in an alternator).
So.......... if the PCM is saying voltage is high it should be cutting field current.
Logic then says that the PCM can't do that and it's lost control.
The other other thing is that if this is a typica Chrysler alternator, it's a field type A which means there's always full voltage to the field and the regulation is controlled by grounding the other field terminal. In that case, the PCM side of the field could be grounded, effectively full-fielding the alternator at all times regardless of the PCM's decision.

(Type B field has one leg grounded and the regulator supplies the current to the field)

I'll assume that these are field type A - in that case they need to unplug the PCM side of the field and see if the alternator settles down - in that case it should not be doing anything - no charge at all.

They didn't really need a load test to determine if it's over-charging. A simple volt meter would tell them that. Depending on the ambient temperature under the hood and the temp of the IBS, it shouldn't exceed about 14.7 if there's a load like low batteries. These will range from about 12.6 to 15.0 - the 15.0 being when it's cold outside, like 40 degrees or colder.

I have a really funny feeling, odd as it may seem, that most dealerships don't have techs that know charging systems or troubleshooting beyond what a book tells them.........

The only other thing I can think of is a blown/shorted diode in the output side - the stator side of things. A shorted diode will throw any system with a PCM and EFI into a real tizzy. There will be spikes and very uneven voltage that electronics hate.
But again, easy to diagnose with a scope - look for a really even mild ripple, even output.

This is with my old scope which finally died a horrible death and an old-school alternator on the bench (1970 Motorola from an AMX) but this is an indication of perfectly working diodes. Modern should be at least this good, very even pattern is the thing to look for.

Chances are I'm about the only one left in the country that still scopes alternators...................

Then you also know this stuff goes in green and changes color pretty quickly.
Not red, not green, more like this -

There is a history of the protection that's put on these getting hot and dripping out. It's a similar color to transmission fluid, I'd say pretty much the same color depending on age and other factors.
Leaks on these are rare unless you drive a 4xe and then you can count on it at the rear, between transmission and transfer case, coming from the rear of the pan area.

Better hope it's not THIS particular leak.........

(Somewhere I have pictures of that substance being tossed from the flexplate area of a Jeep.)

im not sure how mopar trains their techs, not very well in my honest opinion. but i imagine that have a procedure and have to follow it in order to warranty anything out. which is why they tested my battery before they did anything. how in the world a bad battery would cause an overcharging issue is beyond me. if i hadnt been hit by a reckless driver a few weeks after buying it, i wouldnt traded in already, unfortunately im stuck with it now.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

im not sure how mopar trains their techs, not very well in my honest opinion. but i imagine that have a procedure and have to follow it in order to warranty anything out. which is why they tested my battery before they did anything. how in the world a bad battery would cause an overcharging issue is beyond me. if i hadnt been hit by a reckless driver a few weeks after buying it, i wouldnt traded in already, unfortunately im stuck with it now.

I'm trying to think through it logically, too - how would a bad battery cause a high voltage issue.
So far, no luck coming up with a scenario. There's two batteries so even if one was open, not a load at all on the alternator, the other would be there to act as a load.
I still have my GM, Chrysler (Plymouth) and Ford factory training stuff- I'll dig but I can't see how it matters. Must be a process they must follow.

 

[Keyappstate]

what a shit show of a vehicle. after the dealer not being able to diagnose the charging issues, i have been waiting several weeks for an alternator so they can follow their procedure. i took a drive to tulsa and back, about 4 hours, and the transmission is leaking, again, see picture i took. the dealer already told me they believe it to be "assembly grease". assembly grease doesnt leave puddles of ATF on the ground. i still havnt received the trim pieces for the interior around the back glass they had to to replace because it leaked from the factory. anyways, FCA has royally ruined the quality of jeeps. they paid a lot of attention to styling and capability and didnt put any effort into quality control or longevity. went to the dealer and traded it in on another truck finally, let someone else worry about the problems now. if you are reading these posts and considering a JT, dont.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

what a shit show of a vehicle. after the dealer not being able to diagnose the charging issues, i have been waiting several weeks for an alternator so they can follow their procedure. i took a drive to tulsa and back, about 4 hours, and the transmission is leaking, again, see picture i took. the dealer already told me they believe it to be "assembly grease". assembly grease doesnt leave puddles of ATF on the ground. i still havnt received the trim pieces for the interior around the back glass they had to to replace because it leaked from the factory. anyways, FCA has royally ruined the quality of jeeps. they paid a lot of attention to styling and capability and didnt put any effort into quality control or longevity. went to the dealer and traded it in on another truck finally, let someone else worry about the problems now. if you are reading these posts and considering a JT, dont.

Why does that fluid look red?
ATF is not red (not in the ZF transmission - it goes in green then turns a tan color after a while - never ever red)

The charging system - you needed another dealership shop. That's a simple diagnosis. But then so few who work at ANY shop these days, and I am referring to ANY shop, not Jeep dealership shops - they just don't know squat about electrical or charging systems or batteries.
I ran into people at a big car even this weekend who were so messed up on batteries and charging systems and even jump starting. They toss batteries in and assume they are fully charged, or they have a dead battery, jump start it, drive it home and assume the alternator has done a good job of fully charging that battery. So wrong.
Sadly even people selling these parts at parts stores don't know any more about them.

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