2022 Gas vs 2024 (4xe?) Financials

[ShadowsPapa]

I doubt we will see the 4cyl 4xe in the JT and IF we do, I just don't see it being that practical. Basically for people that want to drive something that looks like a truck but wouldn't be functional as a truck whatsoever. I'm holding out we see a 5.7 option instead until the hurricane becomes available.

5.7 isn't going to happen. Everyone keeps bringing that up without thinking of the reality and the trajectory of things.
Why would they put a big V8 into the JT when the hurricane is out there, and the 4xe coming?
Go back and look at all of the design and engineering issues at play - cooling among them.
V8s and diesels are being dropped, not added to new vehicles.

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[bleda2002]

I doubt we will see the 4cyl 4xe in the JT and IF we do, I just don't see it being that practical. Basically for people that want to drive something that looks like a truck but wouldn't be functional as a truck whatsoever. I'm holding out we see a 5.7 option instead until the hurricane becomes available.

Not sure why a motor that has more HP and torque than the 3.6 wouldn't work in a truck especially in 4xe guise where it has the grunt of a 5.7.

Only reason it wasn't already offered was cooling but the new grille supposedly fixes that so I fully expect a 2.0 4xe to go along with the 3.6

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not sure why a motor that has more HP and torque than the 3.6 wouldn't work in a truck especially in 4xe guise where it has the grunt of a 5.7.

Only reason it wasn't already offered was cooling but the new grille supposedly fixes that so I fully expect a 2.0 4xe to go along with the 3.6

My question would be - can that 2.0 handle pulling 5,000-6,000 pounds on the highway for several hours at a time - and have enough battery to keep supplementing the engine to keep up that torque? In the mountains you can burn through that battery capacity so there's not a lot of help for the engine at times (after miles of up-hill, it seemed to not do as well - can't keep draining a battery forever and the engine can't propel the load AND charge the battery, too)
It works in a Wrangler, but it's only pulling the Wrangler. But the 2.0 on its own can't possibly pull a loaded JT in the hills. The drive from home to CO for example is all up hill, literally. By the time I reached Colorado Springs there'd be nothing in the batteries. I know it's supposed to be managed so that it always has reserve - but you can't always have reserve for ever.
And you have the weight issue - you don't have a payload rating you care about in a Wrangler. You do have payload with a JT.
Take the weight of the batteries and electric bits and drop them in a JT. In my case I'd have no payload left. Nothing. The extra weight would take every bit of the payload the truck is rated for.
I seriously can't see a JT 4xe that can go 300-400 miles on a tank of fuel and tow thousands of pounds almost non-stop.
That's the other thing that would kill sales of a JT 4xe as it sits now - the fuel tank on the Wrangler is special - and only holds 17 gallons. Take the MPG of the wrangler, reduce that for the heavier JT and now you get maybe 18 mpg with a 17 gallon tank. Towing you'll get 13-14 mpg on a 17 gallon tank. Who is going to accept that?
If they can't get me 300-400 miles on a tank of fuel, or can't get me from here to the Mississippi on a single tank of fuel when towing 5,000 pounds - it's not going to sell well at all.

 

[bleda2002]

My question would be - can that 2.0 handle pulling 5,000-6,000 pounds on the highway for several hours at a time - and have enough battery to keep supplementing the engine to keep up that torque? In the mountains you can burn through that battery capacity so there's not a lot of help for the engine at times (after miles of up-hill, it seemed to not do as well - can't keep draining a battery forever and the engine can't propel the load AND charge the battery, too)
It works in a Wrangler, but it's only pulling the Wrangler. But the 2.0 on its own can't possibly pull a loaded JT in the hills. The drive from home to CO for example is all up hill, literally. By the time I reached Colorado Springs there'd be nothing in the batteries. I know it's supposed to be managed so that it always has reserve - but you can't always have reserve for ever.
And you have the weight issue - you don't have a payload rating you care about in a Wrangler. You do have payload with a JT.
Take the weight of the batteries and electric bits and drop them in a JT. In my case I'd have no payload left. Nothing. The extra weight would take every bit of the payload the truck is rated for.
I seriously can't see a JT 4xe that can go 300-400 miles on a tank of fuel and tow thousands of pounds almost non-stop.
That's the other thing that would kill sales of a JT 4xe as it sits now - the fuel tank on the Wrangler is special - and only holds 17 gallons. Take the MPG of the wrangler, reduce that for the heavier JT and now you get maybe 18 mpg with a 17 gallon tank. Towing you'll get 13-14 mpg on a 17 gallon tank. Who is going to accept that?
If they can't get me 300-400 miles on a tank of fuel, or can't get me from here to the Mississippi on a single tank of fuel when towing 5,000 pounds - it's not going to sell well at all.

Plain old 2.0 is towing 5k pounds in the 2024 wrangler and 4xe tows 6k in the grand Cherokee and the weight difference is only a few hundred pounds so I'm fairly sure it will have no trouble. We've been driving the 4xe all over Tennessee on and off road on a lift and 37s and I've yet to run out of e-assist so I personally don't think it's going to be a problem as far as power train short of maybe up the ike.

Gas tank is a packaging problem, hopefully they figure it out on the jt as it really needs more like a 20-21 gallon tank.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Plain old 2.0 is towing 5k pounds in the 2024 wrangler and 4xe tows 6k in the grand Cherokee and the weight difference is only a few hundred pounds so I'm fairly sure it will have no trouble. We've been driving the 4xe all over Tennessee on and off road on a lift and 37s and I've yet to run out of e-assist so I personally don't think it's going to be a problem as far as power train short of maybe up the ike.

Gas tank is a packaging problem, hopefully they figure it out on the jt as it really needs more like a 20-21 gallon tank.

LOL - the JT 3.6 needs a 24, the JT 4xe should have at least a 22. It really sucks taking a trip in our 4xe. After that March trip to FL and back my wife and I swore that Jeep is never leaving Iowa again - can't stand having to stay around urban areas making sure there are gas stations.
People talk about trying to find charging - drive a JLU Rubicon 4xe and stick near gas stations! Haha.

It's a very poor travel vehicle. (GREAT! For normal around town driving and short trips)

15-16 mpg really stinks with a 17 gallon tank.

and 4xe tows 6k in the grand Cherokee

But the Grand Cherokee has always done better with towing than the JT - our 2021 was rated 6200 pounds and my JT is 6,000 pounds so you've actually dropped 200 pounds with the 4xe Grand Cherokee.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for it and excited to see them doing something and I don't regret our 4xe JLU - on the contrary it's perfect for my wife's type of trips but I'd never again leave Iowa with it. It's just horrible for trips due to the very limited range on GAS.

 

[bleda2002]

LOL - the JT 3.6 needs a 24, the JT 4xe should have at least a 22. It really sucks taking a trip in our 4xe. After that March trip to FL and back my wife and I swore that Jeep is never leaving Iowa again - can't stand having to stay around urban areas making sure there are gas stations.
People talk about trying to find charging - drive a JLU Rubicon 4xe and stick near gas stations! Haha.

It's a very poor travel vehicle. (GREAT! For normal around town driving and short trips)

15-16 mpg really stinks with a 17 gallon tank.

But the Grand Cherokee has always done better with towing than the JT - our 2021 was rated 6200 pounds and my JT is 6,000 pounds so you've actually dropped 200 pounds with the 4xe Grand Cherokee.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for it and excited to see them doing something and I don't regret our 4xe JLU - on the contrary it's perfect for my wife's type of trips but I'd never again leave Iowa with it. It's just horrible for trips due to the very limited range on GAS.

We got about 15.6 mpg at 78ish from Tampa to pigeon forge, I stop every 2.5 hours or 200 miles with it since I don't like to push it. Definitely a short ranger and my 1 actual complaint of the 4xe.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

We got about 15.6 mpg at 78ish from Tampa to pigeon forge, I stop every 2.5 hours or 200 miles with it since I don't like to push it. Definitely a short ranger and my 1 actual complaint of the 4xe.

That's about my only complaint other than the 3500 pound towing limit.
The short range is the big problem. It doesn't matter for my wife with HER driving but it does make it a stick around home vehicle. But then that's mostly what she does so in that respect.....
If anything happened to my JT I'd be stuck now because her Grand Cherokee we traded for the JLU could easily tow 6200 pounds (we did tow my prior car hauler with her 2018 Grand Cherokee to help my son move so I know the GC does well)
Our 4xe, though - 3500 pounds.

 

[LOGS]

5.7 isn't going to happen. Everyone keeps bringing that up without thinking of the reality and the trajectory of things.
Why would they put a big V8 into the JT when the hurricane is out there, and the 4xe coming?
Go back and look at all of the design and engineering issues at play - cooling among them.
V8s and diesels are being dropped, not added to new vehicles.

It COULD happen. We already have the 392 in the JL with all the engineering done, with cooling taken care of already. Since the JT is the same cabin forward, it wouldn't be that difficult. We don't know if the hurricane will fit into the JT yet and as we mentioned before, the 4cyl 4XE isn't going to cut it for a truck. The 3.6 is miserably barely adequate and would be sad if that's all there's gonna be for an engine option till things are figured out.

Not sure why a motor that has more HP and torque than the 3.6 wouldn't work in a truck especially in 4xe guise where it has the grunt of a 5.7.

Only reason it wasn't already offered was cooling but the new grille supposedly fixes that so I fully expect a 2.0 4xe to go along with the 3.6

After all the electric bullshit and batteries are put in, there will NO payload left hence my comment on the fact it wouldn't be useful as a truck. Sure the posers that just want to be in a truck for the look not the function will be satisfied but it will basically knock the JT out of the midsize truck competition.

 

[bleda2002]

It COULD happen. We already have the 392 in the JL with all the engineering done, with cooling taken care of already. Since the JT is the same cabin forward, it wouldn't be that difficult. We don't know if the hurricane will fit into the JT yet and as we mentioned before, the 4cyl 4XE isn't going to cut it for a truck. The 3.6 is miserably barely adequate and would be sad if that's all there's gonna be for an engine option till things are figured out.




After all the electric bullshit and batteries are put in, there will NO payload left hence my comment on the fact it wouldn't be useful as a truck. Sure the posers that just want to be in a truck for the look not the function will be satisfied but it will basically knock the JT out of the midsize truck competition.

The wrangler has 850 lbs of payload, they did this by uprating the gvwr 500 pounds. No reason to assume the JT can't find 500 pounds uprating to basically match diesel payload.

 

[LOGS]

The wrangler has 850 lbs of payload, they did this by uprating the gvwr 500 pounds. No reason to assume the JT can't find 500 pounds uprating to basically match diesel payload.

Yea they're gonna pull something out of their ass to make it work...THATS the type of vehicle I want lol.

And where are they gonna put these batteries? There's no real space anywhere. Remove the spare? Put it under the back seats high up? It's obvious you REALLY want this to happen but you just can't change the reality of the situation.

There's a reason why it hasn't been in the JT so far and nothings changed engineering wise yet to make it happen.

 

[bleda2002]

Yea they're gonna pull something out of their ass to make it work...THATS the type of vehicle I want lol.

And where are they gonna put these batteries? There's no real space anywhere. Remove the spare? Put it under the back seats high up? It's obvious you REALLY want this to happen but you just can't change the reality of the situation.

There's a reason why it hasn't been in the JT so far and nothings changed engineering wise yet to make it happen.

Gvwr is always pulled out of their ass. It's based on the components and chassis and some margin so yes I do think the engineers can figure out what the lowest rated component is and allow for some uprating. People are rolling 8000 pound jt overlanding porkers already.

Batteries could potentially go in the same spot as the wrangler, in between the bed and cab, the battery pack isn't actually that big and there is more space in and under a it than a wrangler.

 

[Alan SOBX]

4xe is all but confirmed for 2024 at this point. It would be a very big surprise if the plug-in powertrain did not make it to the 2024 JT.

That being said, expect intial demand for refreshed JTs to keep MY24 prices high for at least 6 months after they start shipping, even longer for the new powertrain. The 4xe wrangler has been a run-away hit for stellantis, and as long as they don't severely overestimate initial interest, the JT4xe should be initially as well.

Meanwhile, 23s new can be had for serious discounts and the used market is still all f'd up.

I wouldn't compare a 24 against a used 22, i'd still be looking at a new 23. the difference between a gas 23 and a comparably equipped 4xe 24 is going to be between 3.5k and 7.5k on the sticker after tax incentives, add another 4.5k in rebates you're averaging a 10k difference in prices.

That's comparing like against like with one of the few dealers in the nation willing to sell 24s at the same dealer-level discount as 23 (like Koons or Gupton). If you insist on dealing local, you're probably looking at another 5-7k in dealer discount you'd be able to score on a 23 that they would refuse on a 24.

So depending on trim, if you're staying local a 23 gas new would be between 13k and 19k cheaper than a 24 4xe. if you're ordering and traveling to buy, 8k to 12k cheaper.

I lose my company car when I retire at the end of December. I was going to get a 2024 Gladiator around mid-November. With all the incentives and also thinking that, with these delays, there will be a big pent-up demand, I bought the 2023 at the end of June. I wasn’t even planning to get the 4xE which will probably have more pent-up demand since I am not planning to use my Jeep on long trips unless it is to a beach. Pent-up demand leads to sticker price payment. I drive my Jeep everywhere I go when non-business and still have less than 800 miles on it in two months.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It COULD happen. We already have the 392 in the JL with all the engineering done, with cooling taken care of already. Since the JT is the same cabin forward, it wouldn't be that difficult.

Wrangler isn't the same as a truck with massive payload and towing ratings. The wheelbase is different. They'd have to take that V8 and take it through the paces of EPA testing and the SAE tow rating tests among other things.

And where are they gonna put these batteries? There's no real space anywhere. Remove the spare? Put it under the back seats high up? It's obvious you REALLY want this to happen but you just can't change the reality of the situation.

You lose the under seat storage - that part isn't difficult. The wrangler is actually tighter and you lose a bit of behind the seat cargo space in the wrangler but it's easier to change in the JT.
I've got a JT and a JLU 4xe sitting side-by-side in my garage - comparisons are as simple as rolling my creeper from one to the other, and looking inside one, then turning and looking inside the other.

The wrangler has 850 lbs of payload, they did this by uprating the gvwr 500 pounds. No reason to assume the JT can't find 500 pounds uprating to basically match diesel payload.

Swap to a better rear axle design - full floating axle.......??

As far as where batteries will go - Stellantis has patents and designs and is already working on cutting battery space bigly. Even Tesla has cut the space batteries take. I expect that by 2025 model year the JLU 4xe battery capacity could increase with the same space, or keep this current battery capacity in 3/4 the space they use now.

Even if they cut the 700 pounds down to 500 - that's still a lot of payload to recover. So they'd just about have to put the heavier duty full floating axles in all JT levels.

 

[Sting-Gray Neutral Pres.]

My question would be - can that 2.0 handle pulling 5,000-6,000 pounds on the highway for several hours at a time - and have enough battery to keep supplementing the engine to keep up that torque? In the mountains you can burn through that battery capacity so there's not a lot of help for the engine at times (after miles of up-hill, it seemed to not do as well - can't keep draining a battery forever and the engine can't propel the load AND charge the battery, too)
It works in a Wrangler, but it's only pulling the Wrangler. But the 2.0 on its own can't possibly pull a loaded JT in the hills. The drive from home to CO for example is all up hill, literally. By the time I reached Colorado Springs there'd be nothing in the batteries. I know it's supposed to be managed so that it always has reserve - but you can't always have reserve for ever.
And you have the weight issue - you don't have a payload rating you care about in a Wrangler. You do have payload with a JT.
Take the weight of the batteries and electric bits and drop them in a JT. In my case I'd have no payload left. Nothing. The extra weight would take every bit of the payload the truck is rated for.
I seriously can't see a JT 4xe that can go 300-400 miles on a tank of fuel and tow thousands of pounds almost non-stop.
That's the other thing that would kill sales of a JT 4xe as it sits now - the fuel tank on the Wrangler is special - and only holds 17 gallons. Take the MPG of the wrangler, reduce that for the heavier JT and now you get maybe 18 mpg with a 17 gallon tank. Towing you'll get 13-14 mpg on a 17 gallon tank. Who is going to accept that?
If they can't get me 300-400 miles on a tank of fuel, or can't get me from here to the Mississippi on a single tank of fuel when towing 5,000 pounds - it's not going to sell well at all.

Okay I'll bite.

1. 2.0T in wrangler makes 270hp/295tq, which is better pulling power than the 3.6 with the batteries contributing nothing. It will have no problem pulling whatever a 3.6 can pull for any particular gearing configuration, and then the batteries can add more when necessary. Engineers can program (or make selectable) regeneration to recharge surge capacity when ICE demand is lower, like towing along a flat stretch. Even if the batteries are toast, its a powerful motor.
1a. The only drawback here is total cooling capacity from the pathetically tiny radiator space of the iconic front end, as the turbo will produce more heat at high continuous load than the 3.6, so expect a similar max tow derate that the diesel has. Expect "4XE Cooling Ideas" thread on this forum in early 2025.

2. The extra weight is just a bit more than the weight gain of the diesel over gas (400-500lbs). My diesel is rated for 1360 payload, so even with no further chassis upgrades that's still a payload of 1000 lbs on non-Rubicon models, which is more than current diesel rubicon models (which can be 900-ish pounds). Expect all the same uprated parts (axles, brakes, transmission) that the diesel has, and they can take this much further if needed.

3. Won't sell well if it can't drive halfway across America without a single stop while towing 100% of it's weight? This is the same argument against BEVs that has been used unsuccessfully for a decade now, as it just isn't a use case or need for 95% of prospective buyers. I'm impressed by your bladder strength though!

 

[TheGerman]

So, I have a 2021 JTRD and a 2023 JL 4xE, I do love both, but they address different needs (wants). For an empty JL the 2L turbo engine is fine, bit fully loaded for a trip it's lacking the lower end torque, of course that's not an issue if the battery is charged enough to have the electric engine kicking. From an fuel economy POV, the the electric engine getting you going from a stop and then the gas is taking over is actually quite helpful and saves on gas. Oh, and you NEED to install a Level2 charger, the L1 coming with the 4xE needs ~12.5h to fully charge the battery where as the L2 charger needs only 2.5h. That said, the Wrangler 4xE is fun and I'm getting what I want out of it.

For the JTRD, as I'm using her mostly for road trips, probably overloaded, and towing a M416 trailer I really want the low end torque and low RPM to feel safe and decent MPGs. I don't think a 2L turbo engine would give me the confidence I want when towing in the mountains without being in high RPMs. Sure, the electric engine would still be nice to get you going from a full stop. Now, if they would build the JT 4xE with a diesel and not 2l I would swap in a heartbeat.

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