Oil leak from the front of JTR

[Lunentucker]

Isn't it weird though, that the leak appeared after the dealer changed the oil?
I'm not sure I'd trust the diagnosis, and go for a cleanup and second opinion.
Would a dealer quote worst case for CYA?

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[Chunky White]

Isn't it weird though, that the leak appeared after the dealer changed the oil?
I'm not sure I'd trust the diagnosis, and go for a cleanup and second opinion.
Would a dealer quote worst case for CYA?

Yeah I wish I had paid more attention to the exact day I noticed the leak on the driveway. I thought it was another vehicle that left the spot on the driveway so I didn't really pay too much attention. I will look again tomorrow and see if I see any more spots

With it snowing here and my garage a mess I cannot get it out of the driveway at my house. I might go to the local spray wash and spray some mud/dirt off of the engine bay and see if I notice anything else. Best case I just pay them for the seal and wait and see if its needed.

 

[Charles 236]

Interesting.
Others are located (for proper balance) by a key in the crank's nose and are also retained by a bolt and heavy washer with decent torque to secure it - but are a mild press fit as well.
Would be interesting to know the "why" of the differences. Maybe less weight on the balance of these?
The balancer for a typical SBC, like a 350 is something like 9 or 10 pounds (unless you are talking a racing balancer)

The harmonic damper on a Pentastar is only a damper, all the Pentastar engines are internally balanced. Many older engines also used the damper as a balance element, especially in GM engines. Chrysler traditionally balanced it's engines internally, it was a rare old Mopar that used external balance. As for the press fit, the Pentastar engineers decided that it wasn't necessary since the damper wouldn't be used to as a balance element.

 

[OHJeeper]

The harmonic damper on a Pentastar is only a damper, all the Pentastar engines are internally balanced. Many older engines also used the damper as a balance element, especially in GM engines. Chrysler traditionally balanced it's engines internally, it was a rare old Mopar that used external balance. As for the press fit, the Pentastar engineers decided that it wasn't necessary since the damper wouldn't be used to as a balance element.

You just made me (possibly) so happy... I've been working on the 3.8L's for 15 years - knowing that the 3.6 isn't a press fit just made my day. Or, at least will make my day the day I need to change a crankshaft seal on one ?

I am changing 2 of these seals on 3.8L JK's over the next month...

 

[OHJeeper]

The problem with using the same bolt to pull one on is that you are only gripping the outermost threads, not a lot of strength with only a few threads.

That... and that you're putting a hell of a lot more torque on that bolt (and threads) than what it was meant to handle by trying to press one on that way. You're literally grinding the threads right off.

The "static" force of a jack-screw against those threads (whatever the right term is) is a lot less likely to strip than trying to put 100+ ft lbs of torque on one of these to force it on - and, to your point, only using a few threads of engagement to do so.

That flange bolt is only meant for 40 ft lbs on the 3.8. I assume it's something close, or even less on the 3.6.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Isn't it weird though, that the leak appeared after the dealer changed the oil?
I'm not sure I'd trust the diagnosis, and go for a cleanup and second opinion.
Would a dealer quote worst case for CYA?

I would add a leak trace to the oil and wait with a black light.......... well, not wait, you'd get bored, tired, cold, but check later

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That... and that you're putting a hell of a lot more torque on that bolt (and threads) than what it was meant to handle by trying to press one on that way. You're literally grinding the threads right off.

The "static" force of a jack-screw against those threads (whatever the right term is) is a lot less likely to strip than trying to put 100+ ft lbs of torque on one of these to force it on - and, to your point, only using a few threads of engagement to do so.

That flange bolt is only meant for 40 ft lbs on the 3.8. I assume it's something close, or even less on the 3.6.

You must really deal with PRESS FIT dampeners..... I can't recall one that took that much. But then, I can't remember every single one of them, either!
once messed up, getting proper torque is difficult and they've lost strength and integrity.
Either way, the correct tools make the difference. or - make your own tools.

 

[dmwphoto]

interestingly I developed this same leak after my recent oil change. I still suspect the oil filter housing gasket.

 

[Chunky White]

Isn't it weird though, that the leak appeared after the dealer changed the oil?
I'm not sure I'd trust the diagnosis, and go for a cleanup and second opinion.
Would a dealer quote worst case for CYA?

I have not seen one drop of oil on my driveway since I visited the dealership monday. I am starting to wonder whether they are duping me and that I should just pick up the seal when it arrives until I see further problems. I wonder if the problem wasn't the oil filter gasket and they reseated or replaced it fixing the problem

 

[Erievon]

OP: How many miles on your JT? You're out of Bumper to Bumper, but wouldn't this still be under the powertrain warranty? Or are you over 60k?

 

[Chunky White]

OP: How many miles on your JT? You're out of Bumper to Bumper, but wouldn't this still be under the powertrain warranty? Or are you over 60k?

74k and some odd miles. I didn't buy the extended warranty when I bought the Jeep because they wanted way too much for it and anything less than catastrophic damage would be cheaper than what they qouted me. I bought the Jeep with somewhere around 61k miles for cheap compared to the prices of the other ones local too me

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have not seen one drop of oil on my driveway since I visited the dealership monday. I am starting to wonder whether they are duping me and that I should just pick up the seal when it arrives until I see further problems. I wonder if the problem wasn't the oil filter gasket and they reseated or replaced it fixing the problem

Goes back to - put tracer in it, sit back and see what happens.
It's possible that they misdiagnosed and no one is trying to dupe anyone - but that seems to be what everyone assumes if things end up not as originally thought. People jump right on rip-off or being duped.
Oil leaks can honestly be tough to diagnose at times. Oil wicks to other areas, the fan and road wind blows it around and you get oil far away from an actual source.
I've been down that road many times, and have seen people replace rear mains on a V8 when it was really the rear of the intake.

Wipe it up, wash it up, whatever you prefer - try to remove any traces of oil and see how it goes.

Not sure on the 3.6, but for the most part, most engines, a front seal isn't really common until you get some serious miles on them unless there's another issue like malfunctioning PCV system not purging the crankcase and allowing some pressure to build or blow-by (I doubt both in this case)

 

[Chunky White]

Goes back to - put tracer in it, sit back and see what happens.
It's possible that they misdiagnosed and no one is trying to dupe anyone - but that seems to be what everyone assumes if things end up not as originally thought. People jump right on rip-off or being duped.
Oil leaks can honestly be tough to diagnose at times. Oil wicks to other areas, the fan and road wind blows it around and you get oil far away from an actual source.
I've been down that road many times, and have seen people replace rear mains on a V8 when it was really the rear of the intake.

Wipe it up, wash it up, whatever you prefer - try to remove any traces of oil and see how it goes.

Not sure on the 3.6, but for the most part, most engines, a front seal isn't really common until you get some serious miles on them unless there's another issue like malfunctioning PCV system not purging the crankcase and allowing some pressure to build or blow-by (I doubt both in this case)

My luck with the local dealers of a few brands has not been positive with most not wanting to fix stuff while its under warranty. The service writer or rep whatever you want to call him seemed nervous for some reason when he approached me about the problem. The local CDJR dealer hasn't been an issue and have always been good but I bought the JTR at a different dealer of a different brand and they changed the oil twice for me supposedly free of charge. I seen the $149 added to the sales sheet but $149 is cheaper than I could have had it done elsewhere so I didn't argue with them. I was just trying to go back to the place that last serviced the Jeep when the problem arrived. My family has been in the automotive business since the 40's and I grew up hanging out in dealerships my father owned or managed.

If the temperatures worm up today I will wash the engine bay quickly and spray off underneath and see if I see any more oil drops. We have snow and ice for the first time in a year or so at the moment so I am off of work because my big boss thinks nobody will get any work done in freezing snow and ice covered conditions.

What oil leak tracer do you recommend and thanks for the reply?

 

[Lunentucker]

I have not seen one drop of oil on my driveway since I visited the dealership monday. I am starting to wonder whether they are duping me and that I should just pick up the seal when it arrives until I see further problems. I wonder if the problem wasn't the oil filter gasket and they reseated or replaced it fixing the problem

I am very leery of it, since you didn't see any oil until just after the last dealer service oil change.
I'd take it to the car wash and spray the engine off good and monitor.

 

[Gvsukids]

74k and some odd miles. I didn't buy the extended warranty when I bought the Jeep because they wanted way too much for it and anything less than catastrophic damage would be cheaper than what they qouted me. I bought the Jeep with somewhere around 61k miles for cheap compared to the prices of the other ones local too me

I'm at 77k and two and a half quarts low. They think bad crankshaft seal, but also no oil drops.

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