Play in steering/steering wheel

[Bentframe1]

I have owned to many straight axle vehicles in my life to count. Everything from 70s square body Chevy trucks, numerous jeeps, second gen Dodge trucks, & forth gen Ram trucks and my 21 Gladiator that I recently bought used with 33K miles was the worst for steering wander. I adjusted my steering box(tightened it up almost a quarter turn at the sector shaft adjustment bolt) & gave it an alignment (I'm a ASE certified technician with over 30 years working as a mechanic at a body shop. One of my certificates is in steering & suspension) and it is a night & day difference now how my Jeep steers & tracks down the highway. You've got to be very careful when adjusting the steering box as a little goes a long ways & to tight can affect the return to center of the steering box.

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[Remy_Dog]

The Synergy Trackbar and Sector Shaft brace helped tighten up my steering.

Thank you for providing your experience with Synergy and the vid! I thought I'd seen something like this before but lost track of it but I will explore it now.

 

[Remy_Dog]

I have owned to many straight axle vehicles in my life to count. Everything from 70s square body Chevy trucks, numerous jeeps, second gen Dodge trucks, & forth gen Ram trucks and my 21 Gladiator that I recently bought used with 33K miles was the worst for steering wander. I adjusted my steering box(tightened it up almost a quarter turn at the sector shaft adjustment bolt) & gave it an alignment (I'm a ASE certified technician with over 30 years working as a mechanic at a body shop. One of my certificates is in steering & suspension) and it is a night & day difference now how my Jeep steers & tracks down the highway. You've got to be very careful when adjusting the steering box as a little goes a long ways & to tight can affect the return to center of the steering box.

Definitely going to pursue this approach (with a light touch) Thank you for the advice!

 

[Remy_Dog]

You might want to test drive a new JT Sport just to compare your steering play. I wouldn't add the ATS 2.0 until you know for sure your steering play is normal.

Great advice! Went down to my dealer today and, oh yeah, brand new is the same as mine. It's very minimal just like mine, but it's there.

 

[JamesWyatt]

Great advice! Went down to my dealer today and, oh yeah, brand new is the same as mine. It's very minimal just like mine, but it's there.

Perfect, now you know you’re just trying to improve it a bit and don’t have to worry about masking an underlying suspension issue.

For me, getting rid of the factory wheels and going to an 8.5” wide wheel that pokes out just a little from the fender made a big difference. Even on the Mojave, I saw an increase in steering stability with a slightly wider stance. Just my feeling that the more narrow factory wheels are not the best setup for the JT with regard to stability at interstate speeds.

My new wheels calmed things down so to speak, then the ATS 2.0 really allowed me to dial the steering response.

The last step for me that has now brought things to where they feel perfect is to lower the tire pressure to 33psi. I had been running it at 38 with the factory wheels since the higher pressure on those narrow wheels seemed to help it track better at high speeds. But since getting the new wheels, it steers better and rides smoother at 33.

Good luck with any mods. Let us know the outcome!

 

[Remy_Dog]

It was good to compare but now I have a big problem - my saleslady at Jeep is all excited and wants to sell me a new Gladiator, hahaha (she just got me into this one in January)!! Hmmm, the wider rims and the ATS 2.0 would be the easiest solution so this is an idea I'm giving serious consideration.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's a Jeep thing.

No, it's not.

How "loose" are we talking about? This just might be typical for a solid axle truck.

Why?
The steering is exactly the same as any recirculating ball steering gear on an IFS vehicle. They have the same box, the same pitman arm and similar linkage.
There's no reason for play in an solid axle vehicle. If that was the case then all of the Ford trucks I've had should have loose steering, semis would have loose steering and the ZJ and WJ would have loose steering. They do not.
There's no wander and no play IF things are right.

I don't understand why Jeep people keep saying it's a solid axle thing.
All Grand Cherokees up to the WK platform had solid front axle and recirculating ball steering gears. There was no play. It was like driving any car with decent steering.

Neither of my JTs have had "loose steering" with the exception of my 2020 which did have the looseness resolved with a steering gear replacement.

My wife came from a series of Camaros and then Grand Cherokees - and she doesn't find any issue with the steering on my JTs.

Adjusting the steering gearbox would be the first thing I would do.
It's free. Can't hurt.

Why not FIRST check to see if that's where the play really is?
And - it CAN hurt if you go too far and the thing gets hot after driving a while and things bind up.
People blindly crank on that and don't realize they may not only cause trouble, but may shorten the life of the steering gear by tens of thousands of miles.
IF it's the source of the looseness, yes, it needs to be addressed. But that's not a play setting, it's a preload setting, and can ruin the whole thing over time if taken too far.

I also don't understand the constant "throw this at it" thing and just see what sticks - instead of truly diagnosing the issue.
This, I'd say, truly is a Jeep thing. just toss parts at it, and see after several attempts, what resolves it......... instead of looking for the source of the problem, which is cheaper and easier.

Loose steering is not a Jeep thing, it's not normal, and could be caused by any one (or more) of a number of things.
With two people working on it, the source of the looseness can often be found in minutes.

But hey, let's throw all of these parts on it and $500 later - the steering is still loose because no one checked the pitman shaft nut.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It was good to compare but now I have a big problem - my saleslady at Jeep is all excited and wants to sell me a new Gladiator, hahaha (she just got me into this one in January)!! Hmmm, the wider rims and the ATS 2.0 would be the easiest solution so this is an idea I'm giving serious consideration.

- a bandaid. It will still be loose, maybe worn parts, maybe loose ball joints, maybe a steering sector issue, but it will look cool and you'll no longer believe there's a problem.
The wider stance will simply make the tires want to pull harder out, taking slack out of everything, making it feel tight, but the loose will still be there if it's truly got loose steering.

Whatever.

 

[Remy_Dog]

- a bandaid. It will still be loose, maybe worn parts, maybe loose ball joints, maybe a steering sector issue, but it will look cool and you'll no longer believe there's a problem.
The wider stance will simply make the tires want to pull harder out, taking slack out of everything, making it feel tight, but the loose will still be there if it's truly got loose steering.

Whatever.

It’s not what I would call loose, as I’ve described it it’s just excess play which now I understand is normal with solid axle equipped vehicles. Although I just acquired mine new in January the new Gladiators on the dealer lot have the same play.

 

[Gladiatorx2]

All of these comments are constructive. I purchased a new 2022 Gladiator Sport S and as I drove it home it seemed " off " to me. Also, when I hit the first pot hole and virtually any raised ridge or bump it literally wobbled and felt loose. I purchased Rubicon take off shock thinking the Sport S shocks were just junk. Well, I was correct. With 1,300 miles both front shocks were leaking hydraulic fluid. After the shock replacement the issue improved a lot. I then went up to 265/70r17 tires and after that it was like driving a vehicle. I now have a Gladiator Rubicon on 37's with nearly everything Synergy has for the front suspension and I have nothing but praise for their products. This Gladiator now drives better than my F150 Super Crew on 33's. I hope this helps.

 

[JamesWyatt]

- a bandaid. It will still be loose, maybe worn parts, maybe loose ball joints, maybe a steering sector issue, but it will look cool and you'll no longer believe there's a problem.
The wider stance will simply make the tires want to pull harder out, taking slack out of everything, making it feel tight, but the loose will still be there if it's truly got loose steering.

Whatever.

I’ve bought a new JK, JL, or JT almost every year since 2011, and right off the lot, they all have had varying degrees of steering input delay at 75-80mph. Even with the steering and suspension dialed in, we’re driving a brick down the highway on tires not designed solely for on-road use. Only so much we can expect out of a JT at 80mph. For me, small improvements, if they can be had, are appreciated.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’ve bought a new JK, JL, or JT almost every year since 2011, and right off the lot, they all have had varying degrees of steering input delay at 75-80mph. Even with the steering and suspension dialed in, we’re driving a brick down the highway on tires not designed solely for on-road use. Only so much we can expect out of a JT at 80mph. For me, small improvements, if they can be had, are appreciated.

If you take the steering of a JT and the steering of a car with IFS, if all else was equal, there's no reason for any difference in the "play" or "delay" in steering. The steering works the same, there are the same angles working for and against directional changes.
Remember my quest to outrun the storm here a while back, in and out of traffic, getting around anything I could, dodging road debris. There was no problem with steering performance. And there should not be. If anything, there may be more slop in a traditional IFS system because of the multitude of joints involved. You have a joint at the pitman end of the drag link over to the right knuckle. That's two, then you have a joint from right end of tie rod at the right knuckle over to the left knuckle, another joint. 4 joints and otherwise rigid links (supposedly.......)
4 joints compared to the IFS with pitman to drag link joint, idler arm will have a joint, then a joint at each end of the left and right tie rods for 4 more joints. Any play in any of those spots means slop.
The steering gear is the same.

There's 3 joints for each picture (left outer tie rod joint is out of the frame of the picture0
So 6 joints, not to mention the pivot point of the idler arm which is a bushing that can wear and get loose (and often does have some play, even when new)

If the steering is "loose" - don't blame it on the solid axle itself. Think of the fantastic riding and handling WJ (or the fine ZJ which was almost as good)
Both solid axles, neither had any play at all in the steering and response was immediate, swift.

 

[JamesWyatt]

If you take the steering of a JT and the steering of a car with IFS, if all else was equal, there's no reason for any difference in the "play" or "delay" in steering. The steering works the same, there are the same angles working for and against directional changes.
Remember my quest to outrun the storm here a while back, in and out of traffic, getting around anything I could, dodging road debris. There was no problem with steering performance. And there should not be. If anything, there may be more slop in a traditional IFS system because of the multitude of joints involved. You have a joint at the pitman end of the drag link over to the right knuckle. That's two, then you have a joint from right end of tie rod at the right knuckle over to the left knuckle, another joint. 4 joints and otherwise rigid links (supposedly.......)
4 joints compared to the IFS with pitman to drag link joint, idler arm will have a joint, then a joint at each end of the left and right tie rods for 4 more joints. Any play in any of those spots means slop.
The steering gear is the same.

There's 3 joints for each picture (left outer tie rod joint is out of the frame of the picture0
So 6 joints, not to mention the pivot point of the idler arm which is a bushing that can wear and get loose (and often does have some play, even when new)

If the steering is "loose" - don't blame it on the solid axle itself. Think of the fantastic riding and handling WJ (or the fine ZJ which was almost as good)
Both solid axles, neither had any play at all in the steering and response was immediate, swift.

I prefer to blame it on Jeep since yes, my 2018 Power Wagon did not have any steering input delay. Do you have a unicorn JT that right off the lot had zero steering input delay at 80mph?

 

[JamesWyatt]

…The steering is exactly the same as any recirculating ball steering gear on an IFS vehicle…

But don’t most modern IFS vehicles have rack and pinion steering?

 

[tysongladiator]

I know a couple folks have mentioned it, but your first move (before you buy anything or just settle for "it's a jeep") should be to check all nuts and bolts steering related for proper torque and torque procedures. Check the pitman arm nut, steering box bolts, and all ends.

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