Track bar question

[hepcat]

This may get a bit long, so please bear with me. Although I've had many Jeeps and Land Cruisers over the years, I'm not big on lifts, big tires and mods, so my experience with suspension mods is very limited. I'm looking for advice here from some of you who know this stuff inside and out. Years ago I had a 34' tri-axle Airstream that I towed with a Y2K Ford Excursion V10 with 3.73s. The trailer was the most stable Airstream ever built, but it dragged the body of the Excursion around over its rear axle because of the soft leaf spring setup. I fixed that by installing radius rods on the Excursion and it became quite well-mannered on the road.

I've got a box-stock '22 Overland. I'm towing a 23' Airstream and I am at the top of the Overland's tow and weight capacities. The couple of hundred miles down to the campground at 60mph in light breezes, the setup was solid and pleasant. I towed a couple of hundred miles yesterday in brutal 30-50mph side and quarter winds and I was getting that same feel yesterday in those winds of rear-axle steering and that the trailer was moving the truck frame over the rear axle causing rear-axle steering.

Gladiators of course, have coils in the rear rather than leafs, and in researching the Gladiator, it appears that they already have a track bar installed stock to prevent that movement of the frame over the axle. I understand the greater need for a track bar with the geometry of lifts and weight of larger tires, but I'm running the stock, factory tires. Of course, although I have them aired up to max, I'm reasonably sure sidewall flex is contributing, but I don't plan to swap them out any time soon and I'll just live with that for now.

At 55mph yesterday the setup was solid. At 60mph, I was feeling the wind, and at 65mph it was starting to get a little scary.

My questions then are this: With stock tires and suspention, is a coil spring setup inherently better at keeping the body centered over the axle than leafs? Would I benefit from one of the heavier aftermarket track bars? Would that make any difference at all, or is the stock track bar sufficiently stiff and I'd just be parts swapping for the sake of parts swapping?

Are there any other suggestions besides maybe 10 ply tires and a beefier track bar? Thanks for any guidance you can give.

Sponsored

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Leafs are better than coils at keeping the body over the axles. You can run leaf springs without a track bar.

I'd go to a stiffer sway bar before you do anything with the track bar. I don't think you'll get much, if any benefit from swapping the track bar.

 

[PuddleJumper]

There's a lot more going on here than a track/panhard bar. Leaf springs do a decent job of keep the axle square under but they can wrap which is corrected by radius bars, as you well know. Coils setups on gladiators have far more solid points of attachment but that doesn't mean it stays square. Its not necessarily "turning the rear" but it is moving it side to side as it moves up and down. This is due to the arc of motion the panhard/track bar takes as it cycles up and down. The rear steer your experiencing is most likely weight driven, not rear axle alignment driven. Unless your panhard/track bar is loose. A WDH can help but its a compromise. You trade imposed leverages for ones that suck less. This can mitigate sway but if the wind picks up one side of the trailer it will pick up the same side on the truck as well. This will give a rear steer feel. There isn't much you can do about it. weighing more and having a larger footprint on the tow vehicle can help. This is just gonna be a drawback one must live with when towing with a midsize vs 3/4~1 ton. Most personal tow situations will have the tow vehicle weigh more than the trailer. A 6500lb F150 and a 4800lb camper. With a gladiator or similar your looking at a 4900-5500lb truck moving the same size trailer or greater. IE, your gonna get the great dane being walked by a 5 year old effect. A stiffer sway bar, higher rated WDH, and maybe stiffer springs or airbags is all I can recommend as possible solutions. And double check your rear panhard/track bar is tight. hope this helps.

 

[hepcat]

There's a lot more going on here than a track/panhard bar. Leaf springs do a decent job of keep the axle square under but they can wrap which is corrected by radius bars, as you well know. Coils setups on gladiators have far more solid points of attachment but that doesn't mean it stays square. Its not necessarily "turning the rear" but it is moving it side to side as it moves up and down. This is due to the arc of motion the panhard/track bar takes as it cycles up and down. The rear steer your experiencing is most likely weight driven, not rear axle alignment driven. Unless your panhard/track bar is loose. A WDH can help but its a compromise. You trade imposed leverages for ones that suck less. This can mitigate sway but if the wind picks up one side of the trailer it will pick up the same side on the truck as well. This will give a rear steer feel. There isn't much you can do about it. weighing more and having a larger footprint on the tow vehicle can help. This is just gonna be a drawback one must live with when towing with a midsize vs 3/4~1 ton. Most personal tow situations will have the tow vehicle weigh more than the trailer. A 6500lb F150 and a 4800lb camper. With a gladiator or similar your looking at a 4900-5500lb truck moving the same size trailer or greater. IE, your gonna get the great dane being walked by a 5 year old effect. A stiffer sway bar, higher rated WDH, and maybe stiffer springs or airbags is all I can recommend as possible solutions. And double check your rear panhard/track bar is tight. hope this helps.

I was in a similar situation twenty years ago with the 3/4 ton, 7200 lb Excursion and 9500 lb Airstream tri-axle where the Great Dane was walking the 5 year old (a great analogy, btw.)

Axle wrap was particularly noticeable on the Excursion because they had front/rear placement of the shocks on the rear axle rather than having them both on the same side (front or rear.) of the axle which led to some interesting movement. I had similar tire sidewall squirm with it as well until I replaced the tires. Now that I think about it, I also believe I put a heavier anti-sway bar on the rear axle as well.

I have survived a true "sway episode" with the 7200 lb Excursion being dragged around by a 2500 lb Trillium fiberglass travel trailer some years ago. The Blue Ox hitch I have took some time to get properly set up for this combination, but is now working rather well. I really didn't have any sway issues per se, just that the wind was pushing on the trailer and dragging the body of the Gladiator around a little over the axle lending some considerable vagueness to the steering. The truck just turned 5k miles, so I hope that nothing is loose in the suspension just yet.

I am now thinking that a heavier anti-sway bar may be helpful as Wheelin98TJ suggests.

Thanks very much to both of you for your thoughts. It's helping me sort out where to go with this.

 

[PuddleJumper]

I was in a similar situation twenty years ago with the 3/4 ton, 7200 lb Excursion and 9500 lb Airstream tri-axle where the Great Dane was walking the 3 year old (a great analogy, btw.)

Axle wrap was particularly noticeable on the Excursion because they had front/rear placement of the shocks on the rear axle rather than having them both on the same side (front or rear.) of the axle which led to some interesting movement. I had similar tire sidewall squirm with it as well until I replaced the tires. Now that I think about it, I also believe I put a heavier anti-sway bar on the rear axle as well.

I have survived a true "sway episode" with the 7200 lb Excursion being dragged around by a 2500 lb Trillium fiberglass travel trailer some years ago. The Blue Ox hitch I have took some time to get properly set up for this combination, but is now working rather well. I really didn't have any sway issues per se, just that the wind was pushing on the trailer and dragging the body of the Gladiator around a little over the axle lending some considerable vagueness to the steering.

I am now thinking that a heavier anti-sway bar may be helpful as Wheelin98TJ suggests.

Thanks very much to both of you for your thoughts. It's helping me sort out where to go with this.

You got this man. You already knew which direction look.

 

[hepcat]

I ordered a Hellwig anti-sway bar last night from Jeep and Truck Parts.com. My buddy's shop is on tap to install it as soon as it arrives. Hopefully it'll make some difference. Thanks!

 

[hepcat]

I had the Hellwig anti-sway bar installed today. It was $304 from JeepandTruckParts.com, shipped. An amazing buy. It arrived in three days after ordering it. My buddy installed it at his shop and said the instal was pretty straight-forward. I had him install in at the stiffest setting. I noticed driving away from the shop that the rear of the truck seemed a lot more stable with a slightly more harsh ride, but not terrible. We'll see what it does with the trailer attached in about a week.

I didn't realize that the stock anti-sway bar was hollow tubing until he had it off the Jeep and on the ground and I lifted it. I'd presumed a difference in diameter between the stock bar and the Hellwig. I was surprised to find that the difference was a hollow tube vs. solid bar stock. I'm apparently naive! Lol

 

[bleda2002]

I had the Hellwig anti-sway bar installed today. It was $304 from JeepandTruckParts.com, shipped. An amazing buy. It arrived in three days after ordering it. My buddy installed it at his shop and said the instal was pretty straight-forward. I had him install in at the stiffest setting. I noticed driving away from the shop that the rear of the truck seemed a lot more stable with a slightly more harsh ride, but not terrible. We'll see what it does with the trailer attached in about a week.

I didn't realize that the stock anti-sway bar was hollow tubing until he had it off the Jeep and on the ground and I lifted it. I'd presumed a difference in diameter between the stock bar and the Hellwig. I was surprised to find that the difference was a hollow tube vs. solid bar stock. I'm apparently naive! Lol

Not sure about the rear, but I know some have hollow front (mojave) and some solid (rubicon). Wouldnt be surprised if thats the case in the rear for some models too

 

[hepcat]

Not sure about the rear, but I know some have hollow front (mojave) and some solid (rubicon). Wouldnt be surprised if thats the case in the rear for some models too

It was hollow on the rear of my Overland.

 

[Josh00333]

Huh now you have me wondering, LOL I didn't think to look when I had my Max Tow one off a few weeks ago.

There is a few different part numbers for them
Sport 68341432AB
Rubi 68341500AB
Mojito 68341496AC

Guessing one for the standard axle and one for the wide one, then the Mojito version.

That Helwig price is really good, has me tempted just to get it.

 

[hepcat]

Huh now you have me wondering, LOL I didn't think to look when I had my Max Tow one off a few weeks ago.

There is a few different part numbers for them
Sport 68341432AB
Rubi 68341500AB
Mojito 68341496AC

Guessing one for the standard axle and one for the wide one, then the Mojito version.

That Helwig price is really good, has me tempted just to get it.

My Gladiator rides a little more like my JKU Rubicon now than a plush luxo-car. I suspect they used a really light anti-sway bar on the Overland for the more plush ride, the Overland being the "old man's jeep" that it is. But I'm an old man... so it's ok. Lol

Sponsored