Ball Joint/Knuckle Stuck

[WILDHOBO]

I had a bad day yesterday, and am currently stuck, figuratively and literally. The project was to replace the factory ball joints at almost 60k miles with dynatrac HD, and replace the rubicon aluminum knuckles with mopar steel knuckles. Everything went perfectly during the break down, as did pressing out the old ball joints. That made me happy as I’d not yet done a ball joint job. Then the fun began. I got the top ball joint installed without too much trouble, the the bottom one fought me every step of the way. After two or three hours of swearing, I finally got it seated flush against the C. The top of it has some hopefully only cosmetic damage due to the press cup on top sliding and touching the ball joint. That really pissed me off, but I got it in. Then the upper ball joint sleeve rotated and dropped 1/4” while performing the torque procedure. The upper only calls for 55 ft lbs, so it wasn’t by any means excessive. With the sleeve not properly seated or aligned, I loosened both castle nuts and attempted to drop the knuckle to fix the sleeve alignment. The knuckle is stuck. Nothing I’ve done will move it. But the really bad news is that while attempting to drop the knuckle off the ball joints, the lower ball joint slid down in the C casting by at least 1/4”. So now I’ve got a stuck knuckle with cosmetic damage from a mini sledge, and a lower ball joint that needs to be pressed back up. But I can’t address the lower ball joint without getting the knuckle to release. I’m at a loss, and am feeling a bit defeated as I now have a disabled Jeep.

Any suggestions from those that have done lots of ball joint work would be greatly appreciated.

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[Lunentucker]

Maybe I'm misreading, but have you tried applying upward pressure on the lower ball joint with a bottle or floor jack (using something to protect the shaft and threads) and tapping the knuckle with a hammer?

 

[WILDHOBO]

Maybe I'm misreading, but have you tried applying upward pressure on the lower ball joint with a bottle or floor jack (using something to protect the shaft and threads) and tapping the knuckle with a hammer?

I haven’t tried that, but I think the lower one is free from the knuckle. Meaning I think the upper is the issue. The upper is seized onto the sleeve I’m almost positive. I’ve hit the knuckle with a mini sledge enough times that I’m not sure it’s ok. Thankfully it’s steel?

 

[Lunentucker]

I haven’t tried that, but I think the lower one is free from the knuckle. Meaning I think the upper is the issue. The upper is seized onto the sleeve I’m almost positive. I’ve hit the knuckle with a mini sledge enough times that I’m not sure it’s ok. Thankfully it’s steel?

OK. I thought the lower was blocking use of the press.
I did see a video where they used the press to apply pressure while also banging on the knuckle.
Not sure it would help/apply.

 

[HooliganActual]

@WILDHOBO When you refer to "the upper ball joint sleeve rotated and dropped 1/4”, am I correct in assuming you mean the sleeve that is in the upper portion of the knuckle that the upper ball joint's stud goes through?

If so, when I recently did my ball joints I found that to be hard to get released from the old joints. I had to do some "mechanical agitation" of that sleeve on its top and bottom with a brass drift and a 5 lb maul. Eventually I got it to release the ball joint stud...but it was some work.

You might try a Ball joint separator like this between the bottom of the upper ball joint and the top of the knuckle:

I know this doesn't help but this is one of the reasons I went with the MetalCloak Baller Joints. Since the Gladiator's ball joints both press in from the bottom (as opposed to the Wranglers where each is pressed from the opposite direction), they have the potential to do what you've had happen. The MetalCloak upper ball joint is captured by a big nut:

 

[WILDHOBO]

OK. I thought the lower was blocking use of the press.
I did see a video where they used the press to apply pressure while also banging on the knuckle.
Not sure it would help/apply.

My problem is that the knuckle is stuck on them, likely the top one. Which is killing me, since they’re brand new ball joints and a brand new knuckle. I can’t press the joint in or out without removing the knuckle, at least I can’t without figuring something out that I haven’t yet.

 

[WILDHOBO]

@WILDHOBO When you refer to "the upper ball joint sleeve rotated and dropped 1/4”, am I correct in assuming you mean the sleeve that is in the upper portion of the knuckle that the upper ball joint's stud goes through?

If so, when I recently did my ball joints I found that to be hard to get released from the old joints. I had to do some "mechanical agitation" of that sleeve on its top and bottom with a brass drift and a 5 lb maul. Eventually I got it to release the ball joint stud...but it was some work.

You might try a Ball joint separator like this between the bottom of the upper ball joint and the top of the knuckle:

I know this doesn't help but this is one of the reasons I went with the MetalCloak Baller Joints. Since the Gladiator's ball joints both press in from the bottom (as opposed to the Wranglers where each is pressed from the opposite direction), they have the potential to do what you've had happen. The MetalCloak upper ball joint is captured by a big nut:

Sending a pm. Thanks.

 

[Lunentucker]

I see. So it's seized here?

 

[WILDHOBO]

I see. So it's seized here?

Exactly.

 

[Mojave20]

As Lunentucker mentioned there are different styles of ball joint separators you can get to try. Put pressure on it with one of these and hit the knuckle. Also pickle fork sets with changeable forks so you can pick the one that puts pressure on the housing of the joint without tearing the boot.

 

[skull_squadron]

OP, have you tried heating the knuckle? MAPP gas gets hotter than propane

 

[WILDHOBO]

First off, thanks to everyone that responded, and especially @HooliganActual for being kind enough to talk through the situation. Many things were at play, and some parts are trashed, but it’s driving again. I did try heat, and had zero movement. I ended up pulling the knuckle down off the top ball joint with a pitman puller. But the knuckle pulled the lower ball joint out as it lowered. That ball joint wasn’t coming out of the knuckle, but ended up coming out with enough force to destroy the threads. I installed another ball joint, as I had not yet touched the passenger side. The new steel knuckle is fine, but has a tapered bite for the tie rod end, which the aluminum knuckle does not. It’s straight. So after all this work, the old knuckle is back on for now. I’m very unhappy with the Dynatrac ball joints. Their external split ring design to hold the top joint in the C is lacking. But even better, both split rings they provided failed catastrophically. After installing them without issue, with a standard split ring pliars, they shattered off the joint with nothing touching the Jeep at all. All I heard was a couple pings, and it was on the ground in pieces. I had to get replacements at a local hardware store. In addition, only two of the four joints shipped had a spec of grease in them. They were dry metal on metal. Oh well. Live and learn.

The ultimate end to this project will be with different ball joints entirely. I think @Metalcloak ballers are the answer, as I want better security on the top joint, and still want greasable rebuildable joints. If there’s any way @Metalcloak could help me with super rush shipping, I’d be in your debt. I have a trip next week, and I just don’t trust these ball joints as far as I can throw them.

Thanks for everyone’s support. It was a tough weekend, but a valuable learning experience.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Pics

 

[chorky]

First off, thanks to everyone that responded, and especially @HooliganActual for being kind enough to talk through the situation. Many things were at play, and some parts are trashed, but it’s driving again. I did try heat, and had zero movement. I ended up pulling the knuckle down off the top ball joint with a pitman puller. But the knuckle pulled the lower ball joint out as it lowered. That ball joint wasn’t coming out of the knuckle, but ended up coming out with enough force to destroy the threads. I installed another ball joint, as I had not yet touched the passenger side. The new steel knuckle is fine, but has a tapered bite for the tie rod end, which the aluminum knuckle does not. It’s straight. So after all this work, the old knuckle is back on for now. I’m very unhappy with the Dynatrac ball joints. Their external split ring design to hold the top joint in the C is lacking. But even better, both split rings they provided failed catastrophically. After installing them without issue, with a standard split ring pliars, they shattered off the joint with nothing touching the Jeep at all. All I heard was a couple pings, and it was on the ground in pieces. I had to get replacements at a local hardware store. In addition, only two of the four joints shipped had a spec of grease in them. They were dry metal on metal. Oh well. Live and learn.

The ultimate end to this project will be with different ball joints entirely. I think @Metalcloak ballers are the answer, as I want better security on the top joint, and still want greasable rebuildable joints. If there’s any way @Metalcloak could help me with super rush shipping, I’d be in your debt. I have a trip next week, and I just don’t trust these ball joints as far as I can throw them.

Thanks for everyone’s support. It was a tough weekend, but a valuable learning experience.

Man this is crazy I have never seen a snap ring shatter like that. Bend sure, crack, ok. but not totally fall apart. It must be a manufacturer or metallurgy flaw, which sucks.

Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like yo at least got it apart and back together so the Jeep is running, right? I was going to suggest the same thing about a separator but it seems like you have that sorted out now.

A good tool to add to your box is an air hammer. They can help in these situations a ton. I swear by mine and have used it extensively. You won't damage the knuckles. Maybe some cosmetic damage (which is irritating no doubt) but you really have to lay on the heat and hammer hard and a lot to cause a problem there.

I also second the metalcloak joints. I have not heard of anyone having any real problems with them and thats what the fellas at my local 4x4 shop use and they do some hardcore stuff.

thought the lower was blocking use of the press.
I did see a video where they used the press to apply pressure while also banging on the knuckle.
Not sure it would

This is also a really good technique. At least in my experience anyway. Heat is the last thing I will use, and it is often times used wrong in ways that cause permanent damage. Always carry a can of PB blaster even if it's not rusted it still helps. A combination of pressure and a 10 pound sledge or air hammer will do wonders.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Man this is crazy I have never seen a snap ring shatter like that. Bend sure, crack, ok. but not totally fall apart. It must be a manufacturer or metallurgy flaw, which sucks.

Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like yo at least got it apart and back together so the Jeep is running, right? I was going to suggest the same thing about a separator but it seems like you have that sorted out now.

A good tool to add to your box is an air hammer. They can help in these situations a ton. I swear by mine and have used it extensively. You won't damage the knuckles. Maybe some cosmetic damage (which is irritating no doubt) but you really have to lay on the heat and hammer hard and a lot to cause a problem there.

I also second the metalcloak joints. I have not heard of anyone having any real problems with them and thats what the fellas at my local 4x4 shop use and they do some hardcore stuff.



This is also a really good technique. At least in my experience anyway. Heat is the last thing I will use, and it is often times used wrong in ways that cause permanent damage. Always carry a can of PB blaster even if it's not rusted it still helps. A combination of pressure and a 10 pound sledge or air hammer will do wonders.

I really don’t like the split ring failures. Two of them in exactly the same manner. Definitely a flawed batch. The black one in the pictures is hardwares store stuff. I bought and returned the spreader. No way to get it on the joint to do anything meaningful. But the pitman puller worked. It’s droving with the old knuckle and new ball joints on driver side only. I’m not leaving it like this. Those joints are dead to me. I don’t trust them, if for nothing else, for the split ring failures. I have an air hammer. I haven’t used it much, and thought about it, but didn’t want to destroy the ball joints. The old ones were toast and the only way I was going to get it back on the wheel was to preserve them.

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