My absolute nightmare Jeep Gladiator Experience over the last 20 months

[ShadowsPapa]

Seriously? The things you learn on a car forum. Always figured mules were dumb, strong and have stamina, but dumb. Live and learn.

I'd like to see one jump over a fence though. Having trouble seeing that.

My wife's father used to raise hunting dogs - and mules - for hunting when the hides were worth something. She said her father would ride up to the fence, take a blanket and put over the top wire to protect the mule in case of barbed wire, then get back on and the mule would simply jump over the fence.
Our neighbor across the road has mules, they go trail riding and so on with other family and friends. He said that many don't do the blanket bit - they simply jump the fence, but he also prefers to use a blanket just in case of a miss.
We were keeping an eye on the bridge construction going on at the west edge of our property as neither one of us trusts what is going on with the edges of our properties and their cattle land next to the creek - and he was explaining about trail riding with mules. I told him of the "big cat" we saw on the edge of their property a few years ago (not a pet cat, either) and he said had mules been in that pasture and they didn't like an animal - they'd kill it, even bob cats and so on. He said he's found carcasses of coons, possums and other stuff along the fence lines that the mules just didn't like being that close - so they killed it. They'll kill a dog if the dog tries to attack them.

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[adamjedgar]

Sell the Jeep ,Get a Horse.

Got three of those. They don't like to be ridden and are expensive to feed!

 

[adamjedgar]

OK latest update since last post about the car.

New engine is supposed to be installed soon (a week or two). I am driving the car until they are ready to install engine.

Drove Melbourne to Sydney...got halfway, engine oil leak, then engine error code (this is straight after a second oil cooler has been installed).

Error code was failed Ow sensor (again). Two new ones installed in Sydney.

Two days after O2 sensors (about 50km), check engine light again...one of the new O2 sensors has stopped working. Code cleared.

Yesterday I drive 300km...on the way back, check engine light has come back on...obviously the same O2 sensor isn't working properly.

On a brighter note...we had fun 4wding on the beach.

Even winched another poor sound out of a spot of bother...he foolishly drove down over the back side of a sand dune. The funny thing is, you can see from wheel tracks, my Jeep had no issues driving where he was stuck...his car was just burying itself into the sand...gotta love the 12.5 width tyres, makes a big difference. (I know 13.5s would be even better of course)

 

[adamjedgar]

Latest update on the Gladiator...
I'm on my way from Sydney to Melbourne to drop it to dealership for new engine to be installed.

It's a 9 hour journey.

3 hours into the trip, I'm currently broken down on the side of the road with what i am certain is a blown headgasket. Coolant temp went through the roof, water is pushing up out of overflow reservoir even after engine has idles for a while and cooled back down. We managed to limp the car 3km to a little town in nsw called Berrima.

Now the totally stupid part begins again...

Nearest dealership is 69km away in kinda the opposite direction to that which I'm travelling over a mountain range at Wollongong.
There a dealership in same direction I am travelling on Hume hwy at Narrellan however its 73km away.

Jeep roadside assist can't choose Narrelllan even though:
1. the car is already booked for an engine change in melbourne on Monday
2. If engine change is done up here in the middle of bloody nowhere, how the heck do I get back here to pick up the car once the engine replacement is complete... given I live near Melbourne 6 hours south?

I contact jeep head office for authorisation to send car to narrellan (because that is closer to melbourne dealership where the new engine is currently waiting to be installed on Monday, im told they will get back to me with an answer on that in an hour or so.

Wtf...im stranded on the side of the road!!!

The nearest tow truck is an hour drive, I have to wait an hour whilst they decide whether or not the car is going to Wollongong or Narrellan, and then I have to wait for a truck to become available to drive the hour to get my car...in the meantime, I've got an 8 year old daughter with myself and my wife who have to wait here whilst Jeep fart assist around making a decision that in all honesty takes 30 seconds.

We still have 6 or 7.hours drive ahead of us in the other car I'm.travelling with but can't leave until tow truck picks up my Jeep.

This is fucking bullshit. I am dealing with some of the dumbest imbeciles on the planet...given this entire saga was caused by shit mechanics and their totally inadequate servicing and mechanical work on my car engine at 36,000km when they had the heads off the motor.

 

[adamjedgar]

Another update...its been 3 weeks since the Gladiator broke down...I am still without a vehicle.
Called into the service centre yesterday to find the bonnet still up, a new engine in, but not running.

The problem with the new engine install is the sevice center are unable to bleed the cooling system...its blocked somewhere. They are not sure if the radiator needs replacing or the thermostat has crapped itself.

Why would a new engine install use parts off the old engine given my old engines problems?

To add insult to injury, this Jeep dealership are closing down in 4 weeks...the business cant continue to trade because it's losing money...staff are leaving in numbers, im not sure they have enough mechanics left to even finish working on my car...

This is getting way beyond the point of utter stupidity.

I'm beginning to wonder if 2 years ago, I purchased a brand new work vehicle or, a mantle piece ornament?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Another update...its been 3 weeks since the Gladiator broke down...I am still without a vehicle.
Called into the service centre yesterday to find the bonnet still up, a new engine in, but not running.

The problem with the new engine install is the sevice center are unable to bleed the cooling system...its blocked somewhere. They are not sure if the radiator needs replacing or the thermostat has crapped itself.

Why would a new engine install use parts off the old engine given my old engines problems?

To add insult to injury, this Jeep dealership are closing down in 4 weeks...the business cant continue to trade because it's losing money...staff are leaving in numbers, im not sure they have enough mechanics left to even finish working on my car...

This is getting way beyond the point of utter stupidity.

I'm beginning to wonder if 2 years ago, I purchased a brand new work vehicle or, a mantle piece ornament?

I guess you aren't at all familiar with auto repair. When people say "I got a new engine" - you got what is called a long block. It's not complete drain plug to radiator cap. You transfer over all accessories from the original - including injectors, manifold (in this case, intake only since the exhaust is integral to the heads) and all other items that bolt to the engine block and heads. You got block, heads, and internal parts. You don't automatically get all that other stuff you believe is part of an engine.

There's one place a cooling system can be "blocked" - if that's even the case since I suspect there's a bit of miscommunication, differing of terms going on - the ONLY place is the thermostat.
I haven't micro-inspected every aspect of these, so don't know if there's a bypass on these like in the past where coolant circulated regardless of stat status to prevent cavitation at the pump and other issues. The 4.0, for example, uses a thermostat with a bleed hole that MUST be placed at 12:00, but the stats in these are part of the thermostat housing if I recall correctly - there's no screwing up.
A radiator will still flow some unless it's totally filled and blocked with crud. I have yet to see that on a newer vehicle, that almost always comes with age. There's dozens of tubes coolant flows through, they'd all have to be blocked or restricted. The only way a newer radiator would be "blocked" is if someone somewhere put the WRONG coolant in it. These use OAT and if you or anyone else ever added coolant that is not just plain OAT coolant, it can form a gel - globs, that plug cooling systems. Never use anything but OAT coolant in one of these. And don't go by color - pink or orange can be meaningless these days because of foreign auto makers switching things out, changing colors. It used to be a standard color scheme but in the past few years.............. that's gone away in some cases. Go by the text on the jug - make sure it meets Chrysler specs and is OAT. Otherwise, it can gunk up your system.
A good tech will figure it out in short order.

Maybe Charles can comment on the "bleeding" bit on these, but this is a first time I've heard of such a thing, personally.

Again, you most likely got a long block, not a "crate engine". So that means a lot of parts get moved over to the new or reman long block, you don't start all shiny new on all parts under the hood. It has never worked that way, and there's is zero reason to replace EVERYTHING when issues are internal to the engine, or block or head related.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Another update...its been 3 weeks since the Gladiator broke down...I am still without a vehicle.
Called into the service centre yesterday to find the bonnet still up, a new engine in, but not running.

The problem with the new engine install is the sevice center are unable to bleed the cooling system...its blocked somewhere. They are not sure if the radiator needs replacing or the thermostat has crapped itself.

Why would a new engine install use parts off the old engine given my old engines problems?

To add insult to injury, this Jeep dealership are closing down in 4 weeks...the business cant continue to trade because it's losing money...staff are leaving in numbers, im not sure they have enough mechanics left to even finish working on my car...

This is getting way beyond the point of utter stupidity.

I'm beginning to wonder if 2 years ago, I purchased a brand new work vehicle or, a mantle piece ornament?

It sounds to me an email to to each executive director and the President and CEO of Stellantis is in order. Horrific situation.

 

[adamjedgar]

Wait...there's more. I have another update as of about 2 hours ago.

After being unable to bleed the cooling system, the mechanics put a new thermostat in the Gladiator and attempted to fil the cooling system and run the engine. Temperature went through the roof again (remembering this is brand new engine on its initial series of startups).

Now they believe that the water pump impeller isn't turning with the driven shaft and is therefore not pumping any coolant through the new engine. This may have been the cause of the old engine failure 3 weeks ago that left me stranded on the side of the road in the middle of no where en route from Sydney to Melbourne.

There is apparently only 1 water pump in Australia at present and, its in Perth (3500 km away) on the other side of the country!

So now, i have to wait upwards of 2 weeks.

Oh also , the service manager for the dealership (which shuts down in 4 weeks as its gone broke) who has handed in his resignation is leaving this Friday...I haven't a clue how many mechanics are still employed by the dealership to even finish my new engine install.

I am wondering what will occur first, the dealership closes down or, my car is completed?

IF Jeep Australia ends up folding due to lackluster sales, given my personal experience, one can only suggest that its purely as a consequence of incompetency from the top down in virtually every area of the business (from reading the market, to inadequate Design considerations in comparison to competitors, to poor maintenance)

 

[adamjedgar]

I guess you aren't at all familiar with auto repair. When people say "I got a new engine" - you got what is called a long block. It's not complete drain plug to radiator cap. You transfer over all accessories from the original - including injectors, manifold (in this case, intake only since the exhaust is integral to the heads) and all other items that bolt to the engine block and heads. You got block, heads, and internal parts. You don't automatically get all that other stuff you believe is part of an engine.

I have been in earthmoving for 20 years and my father was a truck diesel mechanic. I am very familiar with long block engines.

What pisses me off about this is that i demanded that they NOT USE A LONG BLOCK ENGINE for this replacement given the issues with the external parts on the old one which have directly contributed to its demise (ie pcv was the start of its problems and engine failure with temp issues the final straw).

I was ignored and a long block chosen and now look at the results.

I am banging my head against the wall due absolute stupidity and lack of common sense by Jeep with its warranty procedures. Who in their right mind would use any existing components off an existing engine that demonstrates ongoing issues because of those components? Now the fuckers have transferred a series of issues that stuffed the old engine onto the new one...a water pump not pumping any coolant through the system and overheating of a brand new engine on its initial startup being proof of that!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have been in earthmoving for 20 years and my father was a truck diesel mechanic. I am very familiar with long block engines.

As almost always, in forums, it takes tons of back and forth to get to the information that could have, or should have, come forward much earlier.

What pisses me off about this is that i demanded that they NOT USE A LONG BLOCK ENGINE for this replacement given the issues with the external parts on the old one which have directly contributed to its demise (ie pcv was the start of its problems and engine failure with temp issues the final straw).

I was ignored and a long block chosen and now look at the results.

You can't "demand" anything. It doesn't work that way, and in 99.9995 of all cases, a long block is a solution assuming the mechanics know the history and do any basic troubleshooting.
Crate engines are not only a lot more expensive in many ways, it's more complicated to get one for any warranty - it ain't gonna happen, especially when they can replace a few other parts a lot more cheaply since they are transferring parts anyway.

Who in their right mind would use any existing components off an existing engine that demonstrates ongoing issues because of those components?

LOL - everyone does. I've been in the business for over 5 decades, I've built and rebuilt a whole lot of engines, as well as having installed numerous long and short blocks. No issues at all.

Now they believe that the water pump impeller isn't turning with the driven shaft and is therefore not pumping any coolant through the new engine. This may have been the cause of the old engine failure 3 weeks ago that left me stranded on the side of the road in the middle of no where en route from Sydney to Melbourne.

This is extremely rare. In all of my years working on more vehicles than I could possibly list or remember, I have yet to see one personally fail in that manner. I know it may happen because of friends in the automotive world who have seen it - but I bet I could count those tales on one hand. And - most I know when installing a long block, short block, or doing a rebuild replace thermostats, pumps and so on - because it's cheap.

I have to wonder - if the impeller is not tight on the shaft, did you not notice detonation? Or odd water temperatures?

(years ago, even AMC had equipment that registered the amount of force needed to install bushings or other parts "pressed in" or "pressed on". Example is the spring support bushing in the front suspension. If the press didn't climb up to a certain pressure when putting the bushings in the support, those got tossed aside and ended up with 3 spot welds on the bushing flange to secure it. Can't imagine any company today not doing what they did over 50 years ago)

Back on topic at hand - With a water pump not holding tight, slow coolant circulation leads to hot spots in the heads and block, the result is coolant may boil at those spots even under pressure, and detonation even the PCM can't compensate for.
Anything that restricts coolant circulation leads to hot spots inside the engine itself. Coolant sitting around a combustion chamber is exposed for longer times to temperatures in the several hundred degrees range, which will cause it to boil and lead to no wet coolant in that area, leading to detonation.
It's going to be noticeable.

All I can say is that the people working on it weren't really experienced, or were given such limitations as there was no "incentive" for them to look beyond "just replacing an engine". And no, you can't demand a crate engine - to make things right all that's needed is a long block, new sensors, stat and water pump (oil pump as well, unless included with these long blocks)
It's just not going to happen. And there's no reason to under pretty much any circumstances.

 

[kb5zcr]

To the OP:
Once they get it running again, immediately trade it in for something else. Don't drive it anywhere other than to the front of the building to trade it in. Don't wait a week, it will just have another problem, do it that very moment.
You will be happier in the long run with something else (even another jeep).

 

[TinMan2020]

To the OP:
Once they get it running again, immediately trade it in for something else. Don't drive it anywhere other than to the front of the building to trade it in. Don't wait a week, it will just have another problem, do it that very moment.
You will be happier in the long run with something else (even another jeep).

Agree with this. Even if it runs perfect for 20 years afterwards you will always grimace every time you look at it due to trauma induced by it.

It’s like a cheating spouse that promises never to do it again. Lmao. (Not really…..but makes my point)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If I was him AND I lived down there and used the @#$% out of it like is being done, I'd be trading for a Toyota......

I could but won't elaborate - not here.

 

[Rocksalt]

OP .. get a Toyota and be done with shitty jeep

 

[adamjedgar]

As almost always, in forums, it takes tons of back and forth to get to the information that could have, or should have, come forward much earlier

Agreed and I take that criticism on the chin.

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