Disable Start / Stop

[Badunit]

I've forgotten all about ESS since installing a Tazer. It being off all the time and me never thinking about it or being annoyed by it is wonderful. Plus it blanks out the license plate light in reverse so I can see better backing up at night and I can operate the lockers in 4H without having to press a combination of buttons first (a combination I never remember). Some day in the future I will remove or disconnect the aux battery and all that. Hopefully I'll get to it before, not after, it has a problem.

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[Lost1wing]

A lot of things wear the throwout bearing, including normal driving. I've never had a problem and i have close to 60k on my Gladys. Then again, my stops tend not to be very long.

The pressure applied to the clutch pedal wears on the throwout bearing. Sure it is just sitting there rattling away when going down the highway. The real wear is everytime the clutch pedal is pushed, even worse when holding it for long periods at a light. You know what else wears out by holding the clutch? The actual clutch fork opposite side of the actuator. So I see only way for a properly adjusted and bled clutch to prematurely wear out.

 

[Figmo]

Unless you are wanting to use the Tazer live features, Jscan or AlfaOBD is less expensive for making adjustments.

yup. But triple honk when you take the key out is really starting to get on my nerves.

My neighbor just came running over the other day. He used to be a scout master and recognize the “universal signal of distress“. (three honks, three shots in the air, three whatever)

which happens to be exactly what Jeep selected to remind you that your car is still running when you leave with the keys. 🫣

 

[ShadowsPapa]

yup. But triple honk when you take the key out is really starting to get on my nerves.

My neighbor just came running over the other day. He used to be a scout master and recognize the “universal signal of distress“. (three honks, three shots in the air, three whatever)

which happens to be exactly what Jeep selected to remind you that your car is still running when you leave with the keys. 🫣

I never leave it running when I leave it - or if I do for a very short time, I just don't latch the door. I let it close but not latch.

 

[Figmo]

… I just don't latch the door. I let it close but not latch.

ironically, that is exactly what is leading me to want to spend the money on the taser….

that’s what I do, but now I’m getting muscle memory for my other vehicles and doing the same thing everywhere.

I’m starting to wonder “why should I change my entire way of life for every other vehicle that allows me to disable that feature just because one of them is a jeep?”

Melodramatic? A little, I know. Which is why I haven’t quite pulled the trigger on the taser yet. I’m still working through these issues with my therapist.

 

[Blade1668]

The pressure applied to the clutch pedal wears on the throwout bearing. Sure it is just sitting there rattling away when going down the highway. The real wear is everytime the clutch pedal is pushed, even worse when holding it for long periods at a light. You know what else wears out by holding the clutch? The actual clutch fork opposite side of the actuator. So I see only way for a properly adjusted and bled clutch to prematurely wear out.

Yeah, I was reading this thread and stopped to see if I could find what was left of my 05 Wrangler throwout bearing it made it almost 200000 miles. The clutch, pilot bearing and it were totally worn out. Clutch fingers were about razor blades. That was 3 weeks before I got my Gladiator in Jan 2020. I've seen many people trash a clutch in short time.
Warning thread drift, tangent ect ect.
Oh s### this is a thread on ESS thing. I'm not a fan of it, the Taser can automatically disable it on starts, and other stuff. Along with the "light show" sometimes on it's own and sometimes turn off tag lights when backing up.
On the "just don't hold the brake pedal down as much and it doesn't engage the ESS" That's not always a option, especially how many people driving that should not. That is another reason I almost always have a hitch mounted, if I’m going to be hit I damn sure want their vehicle to need a wrecker. Might be due to being hit twice at traffic lights, one a impaired driver on a city vehicle, second a suspended license person no insurance. My first car (parked) was totaled by a D.D. without insurance and revoked drivers license for prior DUI's, hit and fled the scene.
Another point on not having the ESS to many it's not a problem to them they won't have the vehicle long enough for the starter to wear out. I plan on having my JT that long, I'm past 101k already.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Another point on not having the ESS to many it's not a problem to them they won't have the vehicle long enough for the starter to wear out. I plan on having my JT that long, I'm past 101k already.

Bet that starter outlasts a lot of other parts on that thing even with ESS working. The starter bit is a thing people just can't comprehend.
Without ESS, I'd be these starters could go into 300,000 miles.

On the "just don't hold the brake pedal down as much and it doesn't engage the ESS" That's not always a option, especially how many people driving that should not.

Which is probably about 1/3 of them.
They used to be sorted out by the fact you had to be mechanical or even strong to drive. Today, any idiot can be handed a license, and drive away from an accident scene without insurance. Local TV station set up cameras inside and outside a local court house and found several people who lost their license inside, walked out, got in their car and drove away. They got pissed when the reporter tried to talk to them, some got outright dangerous and the reporter had to back away.

But sorry, that starter bit is just not a thing.
People are going to disable it, for whatever reason, logical or totally off the mark, but the starter shouldn't play into the decision at all. It's simply not a problem as has been proven in the past 10 years.

 

[Blade1668]

Bet that starter outlasts a lot of other parts on that thing even with ESS working. The starter bit is a thing people just can't comprehend.
Without ESS, I'd be these starters could go into 300,000 miles.


Which is probably about 1/3 of them.
They used to be sorted out by the fact you had to be mechanical or even strong to drive. Today, any idiot can be handed a license, and drive away from an accident scene without insurance. Local TV station set up cameras inside and outside a local court house and found several people who lost their license inside, walked out, got in their car and drove away. They got pissed when the reporter tried to talk to them, some got outright dangerous and the reporter had to back away.

But sorry, that starter bit is just not a thing.
People are going to disable it, for whatever reason, logical or totally off the mark, but the starter shouldn't play into the decision at all. It's simply not a problem as has been proven in the past 10 years.

Yeah, Bill I thought about adding you on the post. Knowing your thoughts about it and starters life cycle, engine wear ect. A question when does a internal combustion engine receive most of it's wear? The school of though I've always heard is start up.
FYI I think we have discussed this before.
I'm sure many other things are going to fail too.

On the s### heels involved in crashs and otherwise it piss'es me off to no end. Considering I was in law enforcement for over 20 years. And was a cop when one of these incidents happened.

 

[Lost1wing]

Bet that starter outlasts a lot of other parts on that thing even with ESS working. The starter bit is a thing people just can't comprehend.
Without ESS, I'd be these starters could go into 300,000 miles.

That was about the mileage on my first starter on my 91 Crown Vic. All I had to do is replace the brushes. ESS would have chewed into those miles if it had ESS . They rest of the starter was fine. I interviewed for a job that rebuilt alternators and starters. The old man told me that most starters had nothing wrong with them. The ones that were bad usually needed armature windings or commutator. I feel this will hold true on these starters today. Something else will take them out before they wear out.

 

[Badunit]

I have no worries about the starter. If it did wear out prematurely, it can be replaced. My concern is additional wear on internal engine parts. I don't care how many times someone says it is is okay, hydrodynamics tells me it is not. But, even if that is not a valid concern, ESS annoys me.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That was about the mileage on my first starter on my 91 Crown Vic. All I had to do is replace the brushes. ESS would have chewed into those miles if it had ESS . They rest of the starter was fine. I interviewed for a job that rebuilt alternators and starters. The old man told me that most starters had nothing wrong with them. The ones that were bad usually needed armature windings or commutator. I feel this will hold true on these starters today. Something else will take them out before they wear out.

That's atypical for a Ford type starter.
Starter life before modern engines depended on battery quality and SoC, engine condition and tune, battery cable/connection condition, as well as how many cold starts it endured (note the word "cold" in there). Any imperfect connection dropped voltage and increased the draw of the starter, generating more heat and leading to more wear on the brushes and commutator (I've seen Ford starters toss their solder)
I am that old man - and yes, I've replaced quite a few brush sets on starters. Ford seemed to handle things better but their brushes were massive. GM is was solenoids and brushes. Then for the 4.0 it was brushes and solenoids. It's rare for a 4.0 starter to fail any other way other than brushes or solenoid.
I've done starters, alternators and wiper motors since the early 1970s. I've done a lot more of them since retiring 8 yeas ago since concentrating on repair and restoration of starters. I've got dozens of them on the shelves.
I have not seen many starters at all that needed armatures! Honestly, that's the least common thing - unless you count the commutator. I have an armature lathe - turn them down, cut the mica, they are like new again. But armature windings? Not common.
Doesn't really matter, though, because we're not talking about starters from 1990 and earlier.
We are talking a totally new design, new generation of starter that takes a hell of a lot less amperage to spin over that engine, and - the spin times are minimal because modern engines start in a fraction of the time prior engines did.
So, you have modern starters that do not have carbon brushes, do not have copper armatures, that draw a fraction of the amperage, and - only have to turn over a small fraction of the time earlier starters had to spin due to how easily modern engines turn over - and how fast they start.
Starters are literally a non-issue. People need to stop thinking 1990 and earlier. This is 2025, you wouldn't even recognize the internals of a modern starter, not to mention look at the really light wires going to them compared to the huge battery cable going to prior starters. It's about spin time, heat, load and more.
Starters are a non-issue.

I have no worries about the starter. If it did wear out prematurely, it can be replaced. My concern is additional wear on internal engine parts. I don't care how many times someone says it is is okay, hydrodynamics tells me it is not. But, even if that is not a valid concern, ESS annoys me.

LOL - yeah, so ignore the fact that ESS has been around since the 1980s, ignore the fact that hybrid car engines stop and start hundreds of times more often in 1,000 miles than our ESS engines. Ignore the fact that our bearings aren't ordinary babbitt bearings.
A hybrid engine may shut down and restart a half dozen times in 10 miles - and yet, here we are. They shut down at stop lights, they restart at the green light, they may shut down several times - and restart again - just in a 30 minute trip.
Considering a hybrid engine shuts down and restarts many many times more often than an ESS engine does - and a typical hybrid engine runs 150,000-250,000 miles, should our engines not go over 250,000 miles even with ESS active?
Bring in the fact that we're talking hot or warm starts, FAST starts with only a revolution or two before there's oil flow due to the CRANKSHAFT driven vane type pump (prior pumps were driven at half engine speed and were tiny gear type pumps), you have oil pressure pretty much as it first fires. It's just not an issue.
This stuff has been around as long as some members have been alive. It's not experimental, and they aren't just now figuring out how to make things last. They've had decades to do that.
This is not 1970. Your "hydrodynamics" isn't a thing here.

Annoying - well, there's only one fix for that - disable it. Only you can control whether or not you are annoyed, no one else.

At least that's a reason, while the others hold no water at all.
If it annoys you, kill it.
But don't drag in engine wear and starters - those are quite simply non-issues these days.

 

[RS3]

I put the Tazer on my first 22 that I ordered and had no issues with it. Just recently bought another 22 diesel and just got my second Tazer in the mail. For me, I just don't like the vehicle shutting off. I always am like WTF just happened until I realize what happened. I like the Tazer due to all the features it comes with and you can adjust things as needed.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I put the Tazer on my first 22 that I ordered and had no issues with it. Just recently bought another 22 diesel and just got my second Tazer in the mail. For me, I just don't like the vehicle shutting off. I always am like WTF just happened until I realize what happened. I like the Tazer due to all the features it comes with and you can adjust things as needed.

Not that anyone has to tell you but I suggest you never buy a hybrid. It would drive you nuts.

 

[Badunit]

This stuff has been around as long as some members have been alive. It's not experimental, and they aren't just now figuring out how to make things last. They've had decades to do that.

Decades of time to perfect something means little to me. They've had over a century to perfect ICE engines, enough time that there should be almost no failures before 500K+ miles, if that had been the goal. And they've had over a decade to fix the Pentastar valve train issues, yet here we are with the same problems. The goal does not appear to be increased robustness, it appears to be lower manufacturing cost (more profit) and trying to squeeze more power from ever-smaller engines while trying to meet increasing EPA standards. Then again, cars have become throw-away items (a small accident = totalled = junkyard) so maybe there isn't much point in making an engine that lasts longer than the vehicle is statistically likely to.

Annoying - well, there's only one fix for [ESS] - disable it. Only you can control whether or not you are annoyed, no one else.

Already did it and it is 100% absolutely wonderful. The annoyance was my primary reason for disabling it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

And they've had over a decade to fix the Pentastar valve train issues, yet here we are with the same problems.

9 years.......... the upgrade didn't come out until 16.

They've had over a century to perfect ICE engines,

And they might have except for $$ and EPA regs and safety rules and so on. A near perfect ICE does exist, you just can't afford it and it's not going into production vehicles.
You pretty much answered your own thought with your sentences following your quote I quoted here. Yes, to that.
As far as a perfect ICE - that's a tough one due to the inherent inefficiencies of burning a fuel to create motion, the loss of energy due to heat, other factors.
We'll have to wait for the Mr. Fusion to come out to have perfect engines for our vehicles.

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