Sunrider owners - MY mess-up, or theirs?

[Gatorized]

I can see an all expenses paid vacation to Denver in your future to get your JT in their shop to figure this out. It’s actually surprising they haven’t already knocked on your door - they aren’t that far away.

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[ShadowsPapa]

I can see an all expenses paid vacation to Denver in your future to get your JT in their shop to figure this out. It’s actually surprising they haven’t already knocked on your door - they aren’t that far away.

It sounds like the engineer I've talked to is in MI.
I'd pick him up at the air port if they decided to come this direction.

From what I have been told - this is really of interest all the way up, they are tracking it and using my vehicle because it appears to be the worst of any they've seen. (lucky me HAHA)
fine with me - if they can resolve mine, then dealing with any others should be a piece of cake.

It's a lot of time and effort on this end, but then, it's made easier by knowing they are taking it seriously and giving best effort. It's become more of a partnership.
Their communications have been VERY nice.

 

[jebiruph]

It sounds like the engineer I've talked to is in MI.
I'd pick him up at the air port if they decided to come this direction.

From what I have been told - this is really of interest all the way up, they are tracking it and using my vehicle because it appears to be the worst of any they've seen. (lucky me HAHA)
fine with me - if they can resolve mine, then dealing with any others should be a piece of cake.

It's a lot of time and effort on this end, but then, it's made easier by knowing they are taking it seriously and giving best effort. It's become more of a partnership.
Their communications have been VERY nice.

I'm available if they need another test subject.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Received more communication. They have an experimental mount coming that I'll try. It's in part to determine what it takes to make things sit parallel, and determine if the front clamp clamping force becomes too high and more.
So there will be some more time as they receive the parts and then I receive them and put them in place.
There are questions on my end - if the right side comes up enough to improve the gap at the top of the door as far as making it even or parallel, and remove seal distortion, what happens at the windshield - will it raise the top too much and introduce water leaks and wind noise, what happens to the front clamps - the right side is already pulling hard on the area the freedom panel clamps to and pulls it up noticeably.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm available if they need another test subject.

Will be interesting to see how all of this ends up. I have a feeling it could involve more than just the side rail mounts.

since the left is just barely in range, I'd thought about moving the 4mm right clamp to the left when the new experimental clamp comes in and seeing how that works out. Might even things up even more.

 

[DanJT]

Keep at it PS. sounds like you have it bout figured out.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Keep at it PS. sounds like you have it bout figured out.

I figure if they are working this hard on it, we'll get there.
This next step may not be a solution or solve anything - BUT - it's necessary to gain more information and at this point, that's what's needed.

 

[DanJT]

Fingers crossed!

 

[Trollboogie]

I'm glad to see that they are actually doing something to try and fix it. I think you have more leverage since you got your top with your JT. You were able to get Jeep involved.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

OK, more testing, experimenting. I think I've proven there's more than one thing going on here!

I moved the mount that they had sent for the right side over to the left (they cut that one 4mm)
It actually made the left side better - the rail sits a lot more even with the top of the left door now.
The clamping force on the left front clamp - pretty harsh - heavy.

They sent a pair of new mounts to try on both sides - after the success on the left, I only tried it on the right.
Sadly, I had to use to 2.5mm shims for a total of 5mm vs. their prior shave of 4mm.
With things left unlatched and the bolts not fully tightened, just sitting it was perfect!
Now the kicker - when I tightened the large bolt that goes through the front mount on the right side and the two screws that hold the mount to the right rail, I watched the whole rail flex and come down a bit. Still ok, but - the right front corner of the sunrider now rode way up on the windshield gasket - hmmmm- water leaks? Wind noise?
Why not test that?
Well, because if you then tighten the front clamp above the visor it pulls the sunrider back down HARD into the windshield seal and once again, all gain was totally lost.
Take the two front clamps loose all looks good, but snap those clamps in place (it takes quite a bit of pressure) and it pulls it all back down, distorting the right rail and pulling the rail right back down to the top of the door!

I suspect - very strongly - it's not just a matter of getting that right side to sit properly on the Jeep's framework up there, but somehow keeping it in place when you tighten bolts, screws and then clamp those two front clamps = those things pull the sunrider down HARD, on the right side especially.

Before you clamp it - note how high it sits -

After you engage the clamps -

Before clamping - sits nice -

After clamping ->

Before clamping - it's almost too much gap at the windshield, but great at the door.

After clamping and tightening screws, right back where it was -

 

[Trollboogie]

That's strange about the clamp. When I clamp mine down.... it doesn't pull hard at all. It almost feels loose.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That's strange about the clamp. When I clamp mine down.... it doesn't pull hard at all. It almost feels loose.

Mine have always been tighter than I expected.
So much so that it actually pulls up on the areas where the freedom panels clamp. It literally pulls them up a lot - measurably.
It's quite a bit of pressure on the left, oddly, not as much on the right but then it's been clamped down so hard on that side for so long, the seal could be taking a set now.

That's why I think there's something else going on - the clamps aren't straight out from where they latch, they sit well above those areas, so they actually pull down hard, and not forward at all.

 

[Trollboogie]

That's doesn't sound right. I'm sure the pressure when clamping the freedom panels is not too much? My freedom panels have a nice pressure when clamping them.

Since my clamps have little pressure( on the Sunrider) that's probably why mine sounds like a big air leak.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

More info I've sent along to them -

Yesterday was a nice day, low humidity, and about 78 degrees.
What better time to open the top. I needed to make a run to town, so flipped back the Sunrider and enjoyed the ride.
Parking it back in the garage I noticed that things looked pretty much perfect with it flipped back!

I put the single 4mm mount on the left side and the latest experimental mount on the right side with 2 of the 2.5 mm shims. The seals sit perfectly, the door gap is perfect, it couldn't be better.

With doors open, I can easily pull down in the side rails and cause things to deform again - on both sides, right is slightly worse and easier to deflect and deform the seal.

But if you looked at it now with the thing open, you'd say PERFECT.
I think the left would be fine with 3mm rather than 4.

I guess I could use the other mount with enough shims to get it to 3mm and see. 2 was barely enough, 3 I bet is right for the left. In any case, it sits just fine with it open.

If I get a chance, I'll put the experimental mount on the left side and shim it to 3mm higher. The mount I moved from the right had been milled 4mm so it raised the front of the left rail 4mm. I bet raising the left 3 mm would be fine. The right still seems to need about 5 - maybe 4 bare minimum IF LEFT UNCLAMPED, UNCLOSED.

But close that baby and clip the clamps up front by the visors, trouble again.

So I bet two issues - the side rails are obviously off in mounting since modified mounts set them PERFECTLY on the seals and totally parallel with the door tops EXACTLY like our freedom panels do. Looking at this now, this is how the freedom panel drip rail looks.

 

[Gatorized]

An interesting conundrum - the freedom panels attach to and are positioned by the hardtop and the windshield frame. The rain gutters are built into the panels. As long as the position of the hardtop and windshield remain unchanged all freedom panels should be interchangeable.
The Sunrider attaches to the hardtop and windshield, but the gutters attach to the framework/roll cage.
sounds like the clamps for the original and the test variants are all the same size in terms of clamping diameter to fit around the roll cage, but test variants are offset to allow increased height of the gutters, to get them back in line with the freedom panel gutters.

does that mean Jeep has changed the specs on the roll cage, or did they have a run of builds that were out of spec, or maybe just had a stack up of tolerances that got through Quality checks but only become noticeable when the Sunrider comes into play.

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