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[Deleted member 57233]

Say's the king of virtue signaling...
The last thing China cares about is the environment and safety. The only time they play along is when foreign companies impose working conditions standards on the factories. China can't make a water filter without polluting somewhere else simply out of spite.

And 90% of the rare earth materials used to make semiconductors are from these Chinese mines. The entire electronics industry supports these conditions, but the anti EV crowd just wants to cherry pick while ignoring every electronic device in their house.

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[Jrgunn5150]

Am old enough to remember concerns about EFI not being able to be worked on without special tools, or only by the dealer, with all those whizz bang golly gee computers.

Even led to OBD 2 standards.

Somehow now, a guy can buy 12 dollar app and 15 dollar dongle and work on EFI vehicles.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

And 90% of the rare earth materials used to make semiconductors are from these Chinese mines. The entire electronics industry supports these conditions, but the anti EV crowd just wants to cherry pick while ignoring every electronic device in their house.

Not saying you're wrong on your point. I was actually making two additional points.
1. You're one of the people that loves to cherry pick a lot of particular items. So in this particular case you are correct but its also a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

2. Using China as an example is kinda superfluous. China doesn't do anything that doesn't harm the planet. If they made water, it would be made by slave labor and would be laced with lead. So China needs to be protested and fought back against in pretty much anything they do. And since China is the primary source of Lithium(for now) it's not wrong to point out the conditions. Why don't we see how Lithium mining looks in Arkansas in the coming years to see if its the lithium mining that's bad or if its a miner? I'm don't hate all the EV stuff or windmills but I do think it's stupid to pretend it's saving the planet or that fossil fuels are bad. Hell, its starting to look like fossil fuels aren't even made from dinosaurs.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Not saying you're wrong on your point. I was actually making two additional points.
1. You're one of the people that loves to cherry pick a lot of particular items. So in this particular case you are correct but its also a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

2. Using China as an example is kinda superfluous. China doesn't do anything that doesn't harm the planet. If they made water, it would be made by slave labor and would be laced with lead. So China needs to be protested and fought back against in pretty much anything they do. And since China is the primary source of Lithium(for now) it's not wrong to point out the conditions. Why don't we see how Lithium mining looks in Arkansas in the coming years to see if its the lithium mining that's bad or if its a miner? I'm don't hate all the EV stuff or windmills but I do think it's stupid to pretend it's saving the planet or that fossil fuels are bad. Hell, its starting to look like fossil fuels aren't even made from dinosaurs.

I'm not pro communism or pro China in any way, but the propaganda in this country is wild. Tell me how 90% of families in China own their home when everything is done with slave labor. Meanwhile 70% of Americans can't afford a $1k emergency and only 65% of us own homes?

 

[Figmo]

So, it's a Ford Bronco that takes half an hour to gas up.

Also owning a Bronco, I don't hate the look of this. If they made a 2 door, it might even get me to experiment with driving an EV for the first time. But we'll never know because Jeep gives no love to a 2 door these days.

Biggest fear: Assuming I can dodge the "tick of death", my gas motor should give me well north of 100K miles before needing to be replaced. And, when I do, it will be at a fraction of the cost of having to replace EV batteries at only half that milage.

I just don't see EV's as being a lifetime vehicle. They are more for the "trade in and buy a new vehicle every 3 years" crowd.

 

[Zachanadandy]

So, it's a Ford Bronco that takes half an hour to gas up.

Also owning a Bronco, I don't hate the look of this. If they made a 2 door, it might even get me to experiment with driving an EV for the first time. But we'll never know because Jeep gives no love to a 2 door these days.

Biggest fear: Assuming I can dodge the "tick of death", my gas motor should give me well north of 100K miles before needing to be replaced. And, when I do, it will be at a fraction of the cost of having to replace EV batteries at only half that milage.

I just don't see EV's as being a lifetime vehicle. They are more for the "trade in and buy a new vehicle every 3 years" crowd.

All EV batteries are warrantied to 80k minimum by law so even in your ridiculous estimate of only 50k battery life they'd give you the new one? In reality most go well north of 200k before they need the battery replaced. If you actually use a vehicle off road, nothing is a lifetime vehicle. I'd trust a Tesla a 10 years and 200k miles over the JL or JT and certainly over anything that Ford makes. Of course the engine replacement to get to the recons level of power is $59k so it's not exactly apples to oranges.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I just don't see EV's as being a lifetime vehicle. They are more for the "trade in and buy a new vehicle every 3 years" crowd.

And yet we're happily putting 120 miles a day average on a 6 year old one.

 

[DylanM]

I just don't see EV's as being a lifetime vehicle. They are more for the "trade in and buy a new vehicle every 3 years" crowd.

Oh I don't know, I think an EV can be a lifetime vehicle. You have it from now until the end of your life when it bursts into flames and incinerates you and your family.

All kidding aside, not my cup of tea but I hope it does well.

 

[GeekJT]

There's very few gas cars out there running 8s in the quarter mile that can be hot lapped,

Can beat the strawman if you want. I actually go to the track. There are a lot of S550's and s650's making 600,700,800 HP. Crying outloud ford offers a 3.0L wipple kit for 800hp, that includes a 3year, 36,000 mile warranty. If you don't know about the Gen3 and Gen4 coyote engine, I'd understand your confusion, but the stock internals can easily do 1200hp. It's literally a twin turbo kit and go. You've just not been at a track recently or you'd know what these mustangs are doing. LOL

Mach-E with performance upgrade is running 11.8s trapping about 114, meaning that's all it has. Without the performance upgrade it's 12.4's at 102mph. So i have no idea why you are talking about 8 second cars, Mach-e is nowhere near that.

Mustangs tho, Bone stock on factory tires you can get 11.9-12.2's. Even new drivers can get 12.4-12.5 easily. Then come mods. Slap on slicks, and it's deep in the 11s, 50, 100 shot off the bottle, 10s. Blowers, turbos, get deep into 9s and 8s.

Oh and they can be hot lapped all night long. Just go to a track and watch. I do it all the time.

Not even talking about a road course, Mustangs can go until you're tired. You are not doing that in an electric, just not happening. Once the battery is hot, you're done. I'm sorry, Mach-E does not "destroy" ice mustangs. It's a cool car, I actually like it. If I was commuting a lot i'd own one.

 

[GeekJT]

This is absolute nonsense. In 20 years it'll likely be at 85% original range. Someone will pull out some anecdote " I saw where a battery failed in 1 year!" and ignore the thousands of 10 year old Teslas with 250k miles on them and 90% original range. It's like " OMG a Pentastar exploded!!! ICE doesn't work!!!!!1 "

Meanwhile, most EV's have 8 year/100k propulsion battery warranties so all this fuss is BS.

People's social media/news algorithms have destroyed the world.

I'm not saying perhaps you won't have a unicorn that someone didn't drive much, kept the battery at 30-50% and 10 years later had 90% left. Sure might happen.

What kills the battery is from a few factors, but charge cycles is the biggest one. It's generally pretty quick loss to 90% life. But you'd be absolutely stupid to buy a 150k car. Yes is properly taken care of will go longer, but how many soccer moms you think are doing that?

ICE has their own issues, namely being oil changes and whatnot, i'm not saying ICE isn't without it's own pros and cons.

In my opinion, electric is great around town, commuting, etc. Absolutely sucks for road trips.

And we in no way have an electric grid able to support even 10% of the cars going electric. So it's not like everyone could go out and buy one. It's also going to be the cause of everyone's electric bill going up if the percentage ever gets that high. Right now, it's like 1.4% of on the road cars are EV and we are already seeing increasing electric rates. So kiss $0.09 kWh prices goodbye. LOL and if the general home electric price goes up to 15, 25c per kWh, like at that point ICE is cheaper to drive.

At 0.10 kwh, it's like $8 to charge up, at 0.25 it's $22 at 0.50 it's $44. So you see, it's kind of a rock n a hard place. And like the general rate at chargers today it's like 0.175, DC fast charging is $0.40-0.60 kwh and the avg public charger is $0.38.

At those prices Electric makes NO sense whatsoever. Every electric car sold is just making it more expensive for everyone else.

There is a lot more to it, and nevermind we already did this experiment in the freakin' 1890s and it sucked then FOR THE SAME EXACT REASONS! People don't even know that history. In 1900 1/3 of all cars on US roads were electric. Seriously we already did this experiment Americans are just ignorant of history and don't understand the tech and power required.

 

[GeekJT]

I quick Google search will set you straight

THey do not have an official time for a reason. A simple google search will set you straight on why.

Oh and fyi, Ford GTD time is 6:52. So much for "ElEcTrIc" will "destroy ice"

 

[Zachanadandy]

Can beat the strawman if you want. I actually go to the track. There are a lot of S550's and s650's making 600,700,800 HP. Crying outloud ford offers a 3.0L wipple kit for 800hp, that includes a 3year, 36,000 mile warranty. If you don't know about the Gen3 and Gen4 coyote engine, I'd understand your confusion, but the stock internals can easily do 1200hp. It's literally a twin turbo kit and go. You've just not been at a track recently or you'd know what these mustangs are doing. LOL

Mach-E with performance upgrade is running 11.8s trapping about 114, meaning that's all it has. Without the performance upgrade it's 12.4's at 102mph. So i have no idea why you are talking about 8 second cars, Mach-e is nowhere near that.

Mustangs tho, Bone stock on factory tires you can get 11.9-12.2's. Even new drivers can get 12.4-12.5 easily. Then come mods. Slap on slicks, and it's deep in the 11s, 50, 100 shot off the bottle, 10s. Blowers, turbos, get deep into 9s and 8s.

Oh and they can be hot lapped all night long. Just go to a track and watch. I do it all the time.

Not even talking about a road course, Mustangs can go until you're tired. You are not doing that in an electric, just not happening. Once the battery is hot, you're done. I'm sorry, Mach-E does not "destroy" ice mustangs. It's a cool car, I actually like it. If I was commuting a lot i'd own one.

Your post I quoted said mach-es and teslas? The model s plaid runs 8.9s 1/4s on street tires with a trap speed of 150mph. Being you frequent the track I'm sure you're aware that speed requires a cage and a chute. No your bolt on mustang isn't doing that. Even your 800hp Whipple mustang is slow as hell by comparison. You'd need at least 1200hp and slicks to try and get there in a rwd ICE vehicle.

 

[legacy_etu]

So, 650 ‘hp’ Honda Element with removable doors? I didn’t even see them mention the tire size in the article.

I saw a mention of 33's. I assume that's the one in the pictures.
I'd hope they will offer this with smaller tires in a lower trim. I doubt most buying this will need/want 33's. Imagine a soccer Mom trying to change a 33" tire on the side of the road.........aw who am I kidding, they'll sit there for hours till the roadside repair guy shows.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I saw a mention of 33's. I assume that's the one in the pictures.
I'd hope they will offer this with smaller tires in a lower trim. I doubt most buying this will need/want 33's. Imagine a soccer Mom trying to change a 33" tire on the side of the road.........aw who am I kidding, they'll sit there for hours till the roadside repair guy shows.

Most new cars don't even come with a don't spare. If the can of fix a flat doesn't work you wait for roadside.

 

[GeekJT]

Your post I quoted said mach-es and teslas? The model s plaid runs 8.9s 1/4s on street tires with a trap speed of 150mph. Being you frequent the track I'm sure you're aware that speed requires a cage and a chute. No your bolt on mustang isn't doing that. Even your 800hp Whipple mustang is slow as hell by comparison. You'd need at least 1200hp and slicks to try and get there in a rwd ICE vehicle.

Thank you captain obvious You are very correct, 800hp will not run 8s.
Let's compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges. Yes, to run into the 8s you'll need a twin turbo kit. In a mustang you need around 1050-ish to 1100hp to run 8s.

So yeah, if we are gonna compare a Tesla plaid that's outputting 1020hp, we would need to compare it to a mustang making around the same power. But there is a kicker, the mustang is lighter, so no matter what, the mustang with the same 1020hp will be quicker.



This Tesla plaid was running 9.6, 9.5 pretty consistent. The calculator says about 9.7.

The tesla is a little heavier than the mustang. The GT curb is around 3,741lbs to the Tesla's low side number of 4,766 lbs. SO with the same exact horsepower of 1020, it's calculated number is 8.9.

So yeah, when you compare apples to apples, the mustang is faster still.

Oh and now the other factor, PRICE. If we do this on a dollar for dollar viewpoint, it's completely different. So if we have the same budget to play with... It gets interesting.

Tesla plaids are in the $101-106 range new. Fairly easily you can pick up a new Mustang GT for $48,155. You could find one cheaper new, but I'll play fair. That leaves me with $52,845 in mod budget money. What can i do with 52k and a mustang gt?

Well... a sleeved block, built internals, twin turbos,hmm maybe since i want to keep it a street car, some hellion 64mm turbos. By the time you get it all said and done, fuel pumps, injectors, suspension, etc, etc. You'd be looking at about meh, $46,000-ish. Maybe some machine work stuff done, $48k.

The important Bit

Which would leave me with $4000 to spend on the wife for letting me build it. I'd make around 1300-1400hp and would run deep into the 8.1's maybe even a 7.9.

So you see, my car would be faster than the plaid, my wife would be happier than the plaid's wife which means the panties drop easier.

The mustang guy is living a happier life. just saying. And that's the moral of the story. Nobody watches silent movies for the same reason car guys don't by Teslas even if they are fast they have no soul, you don't get the adrenalin rush getting into it, cranking it up. Any car guy would take a plaid down the track and laugh about it. But I'd tell you, go take a ride in a 8 second mustang and tell me it's the same experience. If you have never went 10, 9, 8 seconds in the quarter, it'll scare the hell out of ya the first time. lol

Moral of the story is, mustang guys get better service in the bedroom. Just being polite about it and there isn't anything electric can do to fix that.

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