Recall: Manual Transmission / Clutch Recall for 2020-2021 Jeep Gladiator (Notice: 21V-028)

[Munkey Boy]

Einstein's first law of thermo-dinero: The more time you spend making something perfect, the more profit you see go up in smoke.

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[jdwhichard]

with my JT a auto which i love in my old age , ill looked at the clutch and pressure plate , with 2k temps there is no flaw design . its human error you can ride the brakes till they lock up . Im so glad jeep still offer a manual in JT and JL but put a idiot light on the dash so the pilot will not ride the clutch . They need to start a school for manual trans and have them learn on a 55 chevy belair 3 speed column

 

[AleYeah]

Just when I’d made my mind up that I was getting a JT to replace my JKU.... dammit.

 

[Dewyaw]

If I remember right, you're just under 600 at blue depending on the steel. But that would be for relatively high carbon steel for forging, for stronger components like springs it needs less carbon and I have no idea. My 15 years in foundry work dealt very little with steel/iron, we cast bronze. But what I do know is in order to get THAT hot, you need help from a furnace. If that clutch plate reached 2000F through friction alone, I have GOT to see that miracle.

Now, if that number is right, I have a couple questions. First, even inside the housing, how did the driver not know that his right leg was less than a foot away from that inferno? Second, if that housing is aluminum, it would have melted at 1200F or at least transferred that heat VERY efficiently everywhere else nearby; so, what else went thermonuclear and was THAT the actual source of the failure? And of course, what is normal temp for this system?

To be honest, these findings are somewhat encouraging. If it takes 2000F to grenade this clutch pack, then I'd say that's one hell of a stout clutch pack. Too many variables raising even more questions on an already flawed design/system; but, if the fix is to limp when the temp approaches lava, I suppose I'll just have to curb any spontaneous desire to drift my Gladiator while towing a 40 foot Airstream.

But WHY is the temperature approaching lava? Fix THAT! That right there goes to the heart of our frustration...

 

[Kross]

The important thing to remember is it’s Stellantis now not FCA.

but seriously I agree this has bandaid written all over it. It’s almost like they don’t want people to even get a manual because everything they’ve done with the manual (design, ratios, recalls, clutch) screams they just don’t care

 

[Munkey Boy]

But WHY is the temperature approaching lava? Fix THAT! That right there goes to the heart of our frustration...

100% agree. Major components like this should be able to withstand some level of abuse as EVERY Jeep tends to be thrown. Overbuilt is sort of a given to expect when dealing with a vehicle made specifically to go where it is not normal, and come back in one piece, aaaand not engulfed in flames.

I don't want a nanny, I don't want adequate, and most of all I don't want to think about it. None of us should have to considering the price tag. No one knows what made the culprit clutches detonate and all we've been admitted to is "design flaw". This is now a power play between FCA and whoever manufactured the faulty component(s). The quick fix is a nanny stepping down torque when it gets overheated. This sounds like a compromise all the lawyers agreed to; however, I expect that if there is a single instance of this happening again after the "fix", then someone is going to have some 'splainin' to do.

The Wrangler Forum that covered the same problem a year ago mentioned that the clutch assembly was farmed out to the same guys that make it for the Tayoteys. I haven't looked into who or if it is the case, but their only fallback at this point is to try the easy fix without shelling out millions to upgrade and replace. But remember that whoever built it won the contract by being the lowest bidder, there's a small chance that they can legally claim inferior specs but that tends to dismiss their own credibility and expertise.

In short (too late ? ), it sounds to me like they're gearing up for a blame game and this nanny is a friendly agreement to keep business flowing as lawsuits will cost more than payouts.

 

[Munkey Boy]

Just to add, looking at this from a legal standpoint outside part/design flaws, the biggest variable out of FCAs control is the driver. I would say that their only option would be to install an automatic and eliminate any possibility of that uncontrollable variable riding the clutch or dumping it. As much as I, and all of us here, would despise not having a manual, additionally because of that not wanting to pay $2000 for that which we do not want, Jeep really brought it on themselves by making the option an absurdity. If the auto was "standard equipment" at $0, I would have likely gone that route. I would have also chosen the diesel, and likely other options/packages, as that extra $4000 is then a softer, more reasonable blow.

I'd love a manual and held out ordering it because they just accounted for 2-3% here and I hate not having that control and input over my vehicle, but their auto has proven pretty damn bulletproof albeit boring. And if their FUTURE fix is a swap for free or a discount, I would then only regret not going with the diesel. (But not much, the 3.6 is pretty damn good too. And there's no muffler fluid. When did that joke become a reality? ?)

 

[SelfmodJT]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried seeing what the trade in value or what carvana would purchase your gladiator for? I tried to see what carvana would give but its not giving me a number. It says its stumped and will get back to me.

 

[jdwhichard]

look there is no design flaw even NHTSA agrees it is all the operator fault, clutches operate at motor temp behind the flywheel probably around 300 degrees F . The only way it can get to 2k f if there is not enough pressure from the plate and the clutch slips causing fiction and heat . man you can smoke the clutch over and over and never get it to 2k . now ride `10 miles with you using the clutch as a foot rest ., something has to give , the pressure plate cracks and flies out the bellhousing cutting the fuel lines and presto you have a Roson lighter , you know just like the old Sherman tank against the 88mm goes through both sides and lights the first time

 

[Gladman]

These clutch issues have wondering if some drivers are using the clutch as a by-pass for the ESS and sit at lights in the city rocking the vehicle with the clutch to avoid using the brake, or using it hold on hills by constantly letting out to keep the vehicle from going backwards.
I have seen people doing this and is has me concerned that a lot of this behaviour would be quite detrimental to the clutch.

 

[Munkey Boy]

These clutch issues have wondering if some drivers are using the clutch as a by-pass for the ESS and sit at lights in the city rocking the vehicle with the clutch to avoid using the brake, or using it hold on hills by constantly letting out to keep the vehicle from going backwards.
I have seen people doing this and is has me concerned that a lot of this behaviour would be quite detrimental to the clutch.

Seems pretty Rube Goldberg when there's a button on the console to disable it. But who knows, I've seen some stupid shit in my life, and there ain't no recall gonna fix that. Unless they make retroactive abortion legal.

 

[jimbom]

Apples to Pears-When I started riding motorcycles, Nixon was a racer and all clutches were cable and lever. The Oriental units of the time were notoriously weak-just enough pressure and CoF for a stock engine. Stock was never enough performance soooo... Barnett friction plates and springs, Magura levers and more lever effort. The weaker humans complained. Hydraulics were adapted and the weaklings still complained about effort. Similar to mass hysteria. Now we have the original problem renewed-barely adequate component design. Easily fixed with aftermarket parts and strength training, just like Nixon.

Richard Nixon was a racer?

 

[jimbom]

Shit, I live in Arizona, most stuff just bursts into flames because it happens to be Tuesday.

In Prescott?

 

[jimbom]

I don't think that this is actually a twin disc (I have another vehicle which is truly a twin disc, in which there are literally two completely separate double sided friction plates, with a solid plate in between), it's a dual mass flywheel, which is confirmed by jebiruph's photos and described in a general way at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-mass_flywheel

Almost all new OE MT clutches/flywheels are now DMF, it allows them to weigh less (a big priority these days) and to have lower NVH (which could never be attained with a lightweight flywheel). I understand why manufacturers use them (probably especially with the start-stop where they don't want the starter to have to spin up a big heavy flywheel each time) but I detest the things - too much to go wrong and a lot less stored up energy to get you going from a stop. Give me a flywheel that is just a big dumb heavy flywheel that can be counted upon to always do what big dumb heavy flywheels will always, unfailingly, do.

Dual mass weigh less? I don’t think so.

 

[SelfmodJT]

Jeep will fix the problem by issuing a free-of-charge software update that will reduce the power sent to the clutch when the vehicle is in higher gears. Notices will be sent out to affected owners starting in mid-March.

So this was in a different artice i read, reduce the power sent to clutch in higher gears? So now it wont be temperture related?

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