Clutch Recall (FCA W12 | 20V-124) For Gladiator Manual Transmiss [overheating clutch pressure plate]

j.o.y.ride

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Very true, the actual transmission itself (i.e. the gears/splines/teeth/bands/etc) are not a defective unit as a whole. But given that the D478 is the only transmission to have said issue it becomes a "manual transmission recall". Considering it can blow out the bell housing its not far fetched to say it could easily shrapnel through the aluminum cab floor. Add the risk of fire and it is now easy to consider a "major" recall lol. I for one do not like the idea of driving a claymore mine with or without the option of spontaneous combustion.

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Gvsskier

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agree. Hey FCA, just give me a Centerforce Clutch. I think it will be a big upgrade and will (unofficially) raise towing capacity
How is your Centerforce working? CF is holding my order and just notified me they are not happy with their clutch and will release update no later than March 2021!!
 

Gvsskier

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Quite sure. When it happens the RPMs shoot up till the rev limiter kicks in.
That sounds like a slipping clutch!
 

Gvsskier

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I’m trying to decide between Centerforce standard and dual friction. I figured I was planning to up grade before this recall. No problems and I’ve just gotten used to the on-off clutch feel but I think the Centerforce clutch will do better at towing, hill holding and off road and will better handle the 37s I have planned.

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Dual friction is only one available and likely will be the only one.
 

Bbannongmu

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How is your Centerforce working? CF is holding my order and just notified me they are not happy with their clutch and will release update no later than March 2021!!
Holding me off too. They said the factory clutch specs were inconsistent and they needed to redesign.
 

Bbannongmu

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MrKnowitall

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Dual friction is only one available and likely will be the only one.
Centerforce KCFT157077 II Clutch Kit for 18-19 Jeep Wrangler JL and 2021 Gladiator JT
Centerforce KDF157077 Dual Friction Clutch Kit & Flywheel for 18-21 Jeep Wrangler JL and 2021 Gladiator JT
 

KX L

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hawkijon, absolutely no offense intended---but someone taught you wrongly about driving a manual transmission.

I know that many will say it's better and cheaper to wear out the brakes than risk damage to the motor and transmission if you downshift incorrectly. So learn to downshift correctly is my response.

No clutch should ever be held in or "feathered" while waiting at a light, stopped on a hill, or moving slowly up a hill. Any stop longer than about 10 seconds you should be in neutral with the clutch fully disengaged [left foot NOT resting on the clutch]. Moving slowly on a hill behind traffic takes a whole lot of experience in fully engaging and disengaging the clutch. I usually use one gear lower and stay in it allowing the RPMs to go up more than my usual shift point as things speed up and slow down just so I don't have to slip the clutch.

If you're "pushing in the clutch at 60 mph to coast to a red light/stop/turn" you're prematurely wearing down the throwout bearing and friction discs on the clutch and causing the brakes to get about half the life they should get. More importantly it's really dangerous as you'll need to downshift to get to the right gear if you suddenly need to accelerate.

A manual transmission is preferred by many of us as we want to be more involved with the driving experience. Just going up in the gears is less than half of using a manual transmission correctly.

A driver should be downshifting when slowing down in order to allow engine braking and ensuring the transmission/engine are fully in the "power band" if you have to accelerate quickly to avoid an accident----due to the distracted drivers all around us this can often be a 2-3 times experience in a single week. Now a-days it's super easy due to the synchronized transmissions. Back in the old corps we had to double clutch when downshifting in order to line up engine speed with the lower gear. [Really easy to hear the grinding of the tranny when a rookie was learning to double clutch :)].

The clutch is only used when changing gears and intentionally "feathered or slipped" in first/reverse as you come in/out of parking. [Rock crawling is a whole different story but you don't do that at 60 mph :) and most never do it.]

Food for thought and my 2 cents.
 

jimbom

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No clutch should ever be held in or "feathered" while waiting at a light, stopped on a hill, or moving slowly up a hill. Any stop longer than about 10 seconds you should be in neutral with the clutch fully disengaged [left foot NOT resting on the clutch].

If you're "pushing in the clutch at 60 mph to coast to a red light/stop/turn" you're prematurely wearing down the throwout bearing and friction discs on the clutch and causing the brakes to get about half the life they should get. More importantly it's really dangerous as you'll need to downshift to get to the right gear if you suddenly need to accelerate.
I agree with most of your post, particularly regarding routinely engine braking by downshifting (even though that does, indeed, wear the clutch more.) Having owned and driven manual transmissions for over 45 years, I do have one slightly different opinion. At traffic lights I very rarely shift into neutral and release the clutch pedal. Your message that holding in the clutch in at lights is hard on the release bearing is -- I believe -- an old wive's tale. That is not the same as feathering which does cause excessive wear of the clutch plate.

But with the clutch pedal fully depressed at idle, I think the wear on the release bearing is pretty insignificant, particularly compared to what it endures so many times at much higher RPM shifts when accelerating. I've had to do a few clutch jobs over the years and it was never because the release bearing failed or made noise, only because of the inevitable onset of slipping due to the disc being worn. To the contrary, I like to think that keeping the clutch disengaged at traffic lights allows a bit of extra cooling of the clutch disc and flywheel while they are separated.

I have to mention that holding the clutch when stopped prevents ESS from killing the motor, which is fine by me. When I know it's going to be a extra long light, then I do shift into neutral and release the clutch pedal to give my leg and fuel consumption a break.

(PS, it would help if you quoted the post your replying to. That will also alert that poster that you did so. Otherwise, he may never know you replied to his post.)
 

cecaa850

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I've had several standard transmission vehicles that I've put 100k+ miles on. I always throw it in neutral and coast to a stop. I've never once had to replace a throw out bearing or clutch assm.
 

KX L

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I agree with most of your post, particularly regarding routinely engine braking by downshifting (even though that does, indeed, wear the clutch more.) Having owned and driven manual transmissions for over 45 years, I do have one slightly different opinion. At traffic lights I very rarely shift into neutral and release the clutch pedal. Your message that holding in the clutch in at lights is hard on the release bearing is -- I believe -- an old wive's tale. That is not the same as feathering which does cause excessive wear of the clutch plate.

But with the clutch pedal fully depressed at idle, I think the wear on the release bearing is pretty insignificant, particularly compared to what it endures so many times at much higher RPM shifts when accelerating. I've had to do a few clutch jobs over the years and it was never because the release bearing failed or made noise, only because of the inevitable onset of slipping due to the disc being worn. To the contrary, I like to think that keeping the clutch disengaged at traffic lights allows a bit of extra cooling of the clutch disc and flywheel while they are separated.

I have to mention that holding the clutch when stopped prevents ESS from killing the motor, which is fine by me. When I know it's going to be a extra long light, then I do shift into neutral and release the clutch pedal to give my leg and fuel consumption a break.

(PS, it would help if you quoted the post your replying to. That will also alert that poster that you did so. Otherwise, he may never know you replied to his post.)
Hey Jim,
Like you I've been driving manuals for over 45 years. I must admit to not being a 100% sure about the wear on the clutch in a jeep---I know for certain that it is true on a modern day Harley [got my Harley mechanic's certificate at Motorcycle Mechanics Institute in Phoenix in 2018]. Instructor was pretty adamant about not holding the clutch in at a light but shifting to neutral---in regard to wear. That said, he and all other instructors recommended leaving the bike in first with the clutch disengaged in case some idiot is coming really fast upon you from the rear.

Seems to me that the clutch is designed for neutral and not designed for holding the clutch in for an unknown period of time "to cool the clutch disc and flywheel".

I totally get the hack to block the ESS ----that stuff drives me crazy.

Also agree with quoting the post---I thought I did. My bust for not ensuring.
 

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Hey Jim,
Like you I've been driving manuals for over 45 years. I must admit to not being a 100% sure about the wear on the clutch in a jeep---I know for certain that it is true on a modern day Harley [got my Harley mechanic's certificate at Motorcycle Mechanics Institute in Phoenix in 2018]. Instructor was pretty adamant about not holding the clutch in at a light but shifting to neutral---in regard to wear. That said, he and all other instructors recommended leaving the bike in first with the clutch disengaged in case some idiot is coming really fast upon you from the rear.

Seems to me that the clutch is designed for neutral and not designed for holding the clutch in for an unknown period of time "to cool the clutch disc and flywheel".

I totally get the hack to block the ESS ----that stuff drives me crazy.

Also agree with quoting the post---I thought I did. My bust for not ensuring.
The argument for shifting to neutral to me is that it mitigates the risk of accidentally lurching forward of stalling.
I had my first time with ESS on a MT rental last summer (EB 3cyl +6spd MT)- got used to it pretty quick, though that car didn't return any better fuel economy than a 10y.o. car with conventional powertrain.
 

basicGlad

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@KX L I agree, people need to learn how to properly drive a manual, down shifting included.

However...
In countries like Canada, England and more where there's a specific road test for a manual they'll fail you for putting it in neutral at a stop sign or light. The reason being if you're about to get rear ended it's much faster to just gas it and drop the clutch if your gear selector is already in 1st and your foot is on the pedal. You might not react fast enough to get your foot back on the clutch pedal, put the gear selector in first, gas it and then let the clutch out to move forward to avoid being rear ended.

They will tell you too you should always have 1/2 to 1 full car length infront of you for emergency maneuvers like avoiding a rear end collision, moving out of the way of emergency vehicles and incase you drop the clutch and bounce forward. Or what if the person in front needs to reverse.

Their reasoning for not doing neutral at a stop is you should always be in control of the vehicle and being in neutral at a stop is not in control. Also the cost of replacing a throw out bearing after 150,000 miles is far less than the cost of being rear ended, getting a concussion and whiplash. Always do whatever is safer for you, don't do shit to prevent enevitable wear and tear.

In my '90 miata, I'll be honest I put it in neutral at a stop... Old car + heavy clutch pedal. In my gladiator I keep it in first with my foot on the clutch pedal so the ASS (auto stop start) doesn't kick in.

I'm going to try NOT to start, yelling and screaming about these kids that come to a stop ≤ 1 foot behind you because I'll end up using some rude and highly offensive language... Dumb kids never drove anything but an auto and never heard of roll back. Yes I can use my handbrake but it's just mad unsafe.
 

MrKnowitall

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@KX L I agree, people need to learn how to properly drive a manual, down shifting included.

However...
In countries like Canada, England and more where there's a specific road test for a manual they'll fail you for putting it in neutral at a stop sign or light. The reason being if you're about to get rear ended it's much faster to just gas it and drop the clutch if your gear selector is already in 1st and your foot is on the pedal. You might not react fast enough to get your foot back on the clutch pedal, put the gear selector in first, gas it and then let the clutch out to move forward to avoid being rear ended.

They will tell you too you should always have 1/2 to 1 full car length infront of you for emergency maneuvers like avoiding a rear end collision, moving out of the way of emergency vehicles and incase you drop the clutch and bounce forward. Or what if the person in front needs to reverse.

Their reasoning for not doing neutral at a stop is you should always be in control of the vehicle and being in neutral at a stop is not in control. Also the cost of replacing a throw out bearing after 150,000 miles is far less than the cost of being rear ended, getting a concussion and whiplash. Always do whatever is safer for you, don't do shit to prevent enevitable wear and tear.

In my '90 miata, I'll be honest I put it in neutral at a stop... Old car + heavy clutch pedal. In my gladiator I keep it in first with my foot on the clutch pedal so the ASS (auto stop start) doesn't kick in.

I'm going to try NOT to start, yelling and screaming about these kids that come to a stop ≤ 1 foot behind you because I'll end up using some rude and highly offensive language... Dumb kids never drove anything but an auto and never heard of roll back. Yes I can use my handbrake but it's just mad unsafe.
Under that reasoning, ESS would never activate, which means it would not benefit the fuel economy drive cycle, which means it wouldn't exist.
 

basicGlad

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Yeah ASS (auto stop start) is bad for safety and your engine. Just get an electric car.
 

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