Clutch Recall (FCA W12 | 20V-124) For Gladiator Manual Transmiss [overheating clutch pressure plate]

DanW

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hawkijon, absolutely no offense intended---but someone taught you wrongly about driving a manual transmission.

I know that many will say it's better and cheaper to wear out the brakes than risk damage to the motor and transmission if you downshift incorrectly. So learn to downshift correctly is my response.

No clutch should ever be held in or "feathered" while waiting at a light, stopped on a hill, or moving slowly up a hill. Any stop longer than about 10 seconds you should be in neutral with the clutch fully disengaged [left foot NOT resting on the clutch]. Moving slowly on a hill behind traffic takes a whole lot of experience in fully engaging and disengaging the clutch. I usually use one gear lower and stay in it allowing the RPMs to go up more than my usual shift point as things speed up and slow down just so I don't have to slip the clutch.

If you're "pushing in the clutch at 60 mph to coast to a red light/stop/turn" you're prematurely wearing down the throwout bearing and friction discs on the clutch and causing the brakes to get about half the life they should get. More importantly it's really dangerous as you'll need to downshift to get to the right gear if you suddenly need to accelerate.

A manual transmission is preferred by many of us as we want to be more involved with the driving experience. Just going up in the gears is less than half of using a manual transmission correctly.

A driver should be downshifting when slowing down in order to allow engine braking and ensuring the transmission/engine are fully in the "power band" if you have to accelerate quickly to avoid an accident----due to the distracted drivers all around us this can often be a 2-3 times experience in a single week. Now a-days it's super easy due to the synchronized transmissions. Back in the old corps we had to double clutch when downshifting in order to line up engine speed with the lower gear. [Really easy to hear the grinding of the tranny when a rookie was learning to double clutch :)].

The clutch is only used when changing gears and intentionally "feathered or slipped" in first/reverse as you come in/out of parking. [Rock crawling is a whole different story but you don't do that at 60 mph :) and most never do it.]

Food for thought and my 2 cents.
Spot on with proper clutch practices at a stop light. Honestly, the Rubicon's gearing in low range makes the need to slip the clutch even less than on the road in high range.





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DanW

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@KX L I agree, people need to learn how to properly drive a manual, down shifting included.

However...
In countries like Canada, England and more where there's a specific road test for a manual they'll fail you for putting it in neutral at a stop sign or light. The reason being if you're about to get rear ended it's much faster to just gas it and drop the clutch if your gear selector is already in 1st and your foot is on the pedal. You might not react fast enough to get your foot back on the clutch pedal, put the gear selector in first, gas it and then let the clutch out to move forward to avoid being rear ended.

They will tell you too you should always have 1/2 to 1 full car length infront of you for emergency maneuvers like avoiding a rear end collision, moving out of the way of emergency vehicles and incase you drop the clutch and bounce forward. Or what if the person in front needs to reverse.

Their reasoning for not doing neutral at a stop is you should always be in control of the vehicle and being in neutral at a stop is not in control. Also the cost of replacing a throw out bearing after 150,000 miles is far less than the cost of being rear ended, getting a concussion and whiplash. Always do whatever is safer for you, don't do shit to prevent enevitable wear and tear.

In my '90 miata, I'll be honest I put it in neutral at a stop... Old car + heavy clutch pedal. In my gladiator I keep it in first with my foot on the clutch pedal so the ASS (auto stop start) doesn't kick in.

I'm going to try NOT to start, yelling and screaming about these kids that come to a stop ≤ 1 foot behind you because I'll end up using some rude and highly offensive language... Dumb kids never drove anything but an auto and never heard of roll back. Yes I can use my handbrake but it's just mad unsafe.
I've spent much time in the UK and the drivers I rode with all put it in neutral at lights and did not keep the pedal depressed. So this must be new.
 

Bbannongmu

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How is your Centerforce working? CF is holding my order and just notified me they are not happy with their clutch and will release update no later than March 2021!!
Got held off on my clutch too. Waiting on CF. They advised that factory specs were inconsistent and they need to re engineer. They are Telling me soon. Fingers crossed.
 

guntrust

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I agree with most of your post, particularly regarding routinely engine braking by downshifting (even though that does, indeed, wear the clutch more.) Having owned and driven manual transmissions for over 45 years, I do have one slightly different opinion. At traffic lights I very rarely shift into neutral and release the clutch pedal. Your message that holding in the clutch in at lights is hard on the release bearing is -- I believe -- an old wive's tale. That is not the same as feathering which does cause excessive wear of the clutch plate.

But with the clutch pedal fully depressed at idle, I think the wear on the release bearing is pretty insignificant, particularly compared to what it endures so many times at much higher RPM shifts when accelerating. I've had to do a few clutch jobs over the years and it was never because the release bearing failed or made noise, only because of the inevitable onset of slipping due to the disc being worn. To the contrary, I like to think that keeping the clutch disengaged at traffic lights allows a bit of extra cooling of the clutch disc and flywheel while they are separated.

I have to mention that holding the clutch when stopped prevents ESS from killing the motor, which is fine by me. When I know it's going to be a extra long light, then I do shift into neutral and release the clutch pedal to give my leg and fuel consumption a break.

(PS, it would help if you quoted the post your replying to. That will also alert that poster that you did so. Otherwise, he may never know you replied to his post.)
I also appreciate not having to deal with ESS, a side benefit of manual because, like you, I usually keep the clutch pedal depressed at short lights.
 

basicGlad

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holding in the clutch in at lights is hard on the release bearing is -- I believe -- an old wive's tale. That is not the same as feathering which does cause excessive wear of the clutch plate.

But with the clutch pedal fully depressed at idle, I think the wear on the release bearing is pretty insignificant, particularly compared to what it endures so many times at much higher RPM shifts when accelerating. I've had to do a few clutch jobs over the years and it was never because the release bearing failed or made noise,

When I know it's going to be a extra long light, then I do shift into neutral and release the clutch pedal to give my leg and fuel consumption a break.
Same. I've seen engineering explained on YouTube state it wears the throw out bearing... But I've never seen one go bad before a clutch disc. You have to look at a 300,000+ mile honda transmission before you find a bad one and even that is probably on its second or third clutch.

I do the same thing. Use AutoStopStart at long lights but short stops i don't let ASS happen.
 

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