LSD Equipped Gladiators Better Than Rubicon in Snow ?

[Josh00333]

Ya my Subi Outback Sedan w winter tires was the best snow car I've ever owned. Thing was a snow lepard, totaly unstopalbe.

Sponsored

 

[dcmdon]

It says limited slip in the name, it must be better.

Tell me one way it's better and I'll tell you one way it's worse.

I

I am sure that is true. But ... many (if not most) of the mods people do their jeeps are not truly needed right?

I too have some history with Subarus, and while not the amazing STI drivetrain, aside from Audi they are the best AWD out there in my opinion (again STI aside - RIP, honorable mention to the Acura SH-AWD and the GKN twinster). I certainly wish we could still get true torsen type full-time 4wd like the old NP242 with LSDs front and rear. That would rock.

Also fully agree with you on the snow tires, but, not something I would ever do. If I lived in the great white north like the OP, for sure. Otherwise, for me some 3 peak ATs are good enough and eliminate the hassle of storing a second set of tires and wheels.

My off-the wall idea was just wondering whether it would even be possible to re-purpose the stock rear locker in the front axel? Be nice to maintain the clean factory interior switching and re-use hardware already part of the package.

On a related note, I also wonder how hard it would be to swap in the stock LSD to the rear (possibly from a takeoff or wreck) since it does not seem like any manufacturer has released a helical LSD for the rubi/mojave/max tow axel sizes yet?

If I was to build the ultimate snow jeep it would have exactly what a Rubicon has.

Lockers front and rear for getting unstuck.

Open diffs when not locked so that the stability control could function optimally.

 

[Fox940]

I


If I was to build the ultimate snow jeep it would have exactly what a Rubicon has.

Lockers front and rear for getting unstuck.

Open diffs when not locked so that the stability control could function optimally.

Typically when you are stuck in snow it is because you do not have traction. The vehicle is what is called high centered. You are sitting on top of snow so you have to dig the snow from out from under the vehicle so you can get traction again. It doesn't matter if you have all 4 wheels spinning or just 2, you will not get unstuck using lockers. I've had my Power Wagon stuck twice in the almost 11 years I've had it. Both times the lockers didn't do shit to help me, and both times I was stuck in snow. You know what helped me both times? My winch helped me as I winched out both times. My new JT, I just installed a winch on it Sunday. Lockers are overrated. If I did a bunch of rock crawling I would have lockers and the low range t-case the Rubi comes with I don't, so I don't need them.

Jeep scored Big on the Rubicon package. Around here there are Rubicon JKU's and JLU's all over the place. The majority are driven by soccer moms and the most off road they've seen is a gravel road.

 

[The Duck of Earl]

...
A lsd will help you get moving in low traction situations but once you are rolling (on the street/hwy anyway) the lsd is really not that much of an advantage over an open Differential.
...

I am not sure what you are meaning to say here. LSDs don't stop working once you are moving, in fact that is the biggest advantage of them over open diffs with a full locker. They are 'always' on. And while JTs are never going to be corner carvers, an LSD will provide the same type of benefits in on road driving in a JT as they do in a sports car - toque being actively distributed to wheel with the most traction as opposed to BLD which brakes the spinning wheel. The feel of the two different types of systems (designed to do more or less the same thing) can absolutely be felt.

 

[dcmdon]

Typically when you are stuck in snow it is because you do not have traction. The vehicle is what is called high centered. You are sitting on top of snow so you have to dig the snow from out from under the vehicle so you can get traction again. It doesn't matter if you have all 4 wheels spinning or just 2, you will not get unstuck using lockers. I've had my Power Wagon stuck twice in the almost 11 years I've had it. Both times the lockers didn't do shit to help me, and both times I was stuck in snow. You know what helped me both times? My winch helped me as I winched out both times. My new JT, I just installed a winch on it Sunday. Lockers are overrated. If I did a bunch of rock crawling I would have lockers and the low range t-case the Rubi comes with I don't, so I don't need them.

Jeep scored Big on the Rubicon package. Around here there are Rubicon JKU's and JLU's all over the place. The majority are driven by soccer moms and the most off road they've seen is a gravel road.

being high centered is one way to be stuck.

But its hardly the only way.

 

[Fox940]

being high centered is one way to be stuck.

But its hardly the only way.

Please tell me more, the other ways I gots to know.

I've been stuck in snow a lot in my life, every time was due to being high centered so no traction was available.

 

[NachoRuby]

Please tell me more, the other ways I gots to know.

I've been stuck in snow a lot in my life, every time was due to being high centered so no traction was available.

I've been stuck a few times. It's always been because of no traction. Never from being high centered. I see you're in WY. That might make all the difference in the world between what @dcmdon and I experience in snow versus what you experience. I think we get a different texture and kind of snow. Its an extremely rare occasion to for me to see being high centered as the reason one is stuck, here in Pa. It's almost always just because it's slippery as heck and provides no traction. East coast snow is wet and slippery rather than hard and dense (until the refreeze).

My STIs and my wife's WRX were probably the best snow vehicles we've ever had. And they didn't even get high centered, as low as they were. Our snow isn't so hard packed unless it sits for a while and refreezes. Usually it's plowed before that happens.

 

[TheSolarWizard]

I


If I was to build the ultimate snow jeep it would have exactly what a Rubicon has.

Lockers front and rear for getting unstuck.

Open diffs when not locked so that the stability control could function optimally.

I expect that once 4 motor EVs are common there won’t be much else people want to be on the road in during winter storms (range anxiety being exempted)

 

[Fox940]

I've been stuck a few times. It's always been because of no traction. Never from being high centered. I see you're in WY. That might make all the difference in the world between what @dcmdon and I experience in snow VW what you experience. I think we get a different texture and kind of snow. Its an extremely rare occasion to for me to see being high centered as the reason one is stuck, here in Pa. It's almost always just because it's slippery as heck and provides no traction.

My STIs and my wife's WRX were probably the best snow vehicles we've ever had. And they didn't even get high centered, as low as they were. Our snow isn't so hard packed unless it sits for a while and refreezes. Usually it's plowed before that happens.

I guess I don't consider it being icy/slippery and you can't go any further as being stuck as you can still back out of it. Stuck is stuck you can't go backwards or forwards and in the case of snow that is due to being high centered and lack of traction. Never had that issue with hard packed snow/ice. But anyway, if it's that slippery lockers won't help you anyway as you'll just have more tires spinning. In that case a fresh supply of sand, tire choice and/or chains will be way more beneficial than lockers.

 

[NachoRuby]

I guess I don't consider it being icy/slippery and you can't go any further as being stuck as you can still back out of it. Stuck is stuck you can't go backwards or forwards and in the case of snow that is due to being high centered and lack of traction.

You can't go backwards or forwards in it. Sometimes if you keep rocking reverse and forward, it'll eventually break free. But you can barely even walk on it. Lockers or lsd help, because usually at least one wheel can spin through to get some traction, but with all open, the slipping wheel just keeps spinning, holding the vehicle in place. My old TJ would get stuck in place all the time in deep snow, because of open diffs. My STI would not care snow was there, with the locking center diff and two lsds. I get the feeling your snow is much deeper and ours is much slipperier. Ours is like mush. And it's really really wet most of the time. It compacts down really easily under the vehicle, so no high centering. But when it does so, it fills your siping/treads. End result: no forwards, no backwards. Stuck.

 

[Jack D.]

Yup. Each wheel being independently controlled by its own electric motor like the Rivian currently has will be the end of Lockers, LSD’s and 4WD as we know it


What is Quad-Motor Drive?
Four motors deliver instant power and independently adjust torque at each wheel for precise traction control in all conditions. Controlling power at the individual wheel enables torque vectoring, the ability to neutralize oversteer and understeer to keep your vehicle steady and responsive through sharp maneuvers while off-roading and in the snow. Quad-motors offer substantially better torque control than locking differentials while also being instantly adjustable for on-road performance.

Back to Jeep
anyone with the full time 4WD and LSD as is on the Overland, comment on how thall works together

 

[Fox940]

You can't go backwards or forwards in it. You can't even walk without falling. lockers help, because usually at least one wheel can spin through to get some traction, but with all oepn, the slipping wheel just keeps spinning, holding the vehicle in place. My old TJ would get stuck in place all the time in deep snow, because of open diffs. My STI would not care that it was there, with the locking center diff and two lsds. I get the feeling your snow is much deeper and ours is much slipperier. Ours is like mush. And it's really really bwet most of the time

Don't know. I've driven in snow like you describe and it's never stopped me. It has to be deep so you are pushing snow with your axles and the undercarriage is dragging before I get worried about getting stuck. If it stops me from going forward, but I can still back up I don't consider that being stuck. I worked many years on I-80 as a State Trooper in a 2 wheel drive Crown Vic or Charger. I actually prefer that type of vehicle on snowy/icy roads due to the low center of gravity and my experience driving them, but off road give me a 4 wheel drive. We used to run a Good Year directional tire, they did very well in the snow.

 

[willhonkforparts]

I am not sure what you are meaning to say here. LSDs don't stop working once you are moving, in fact that is the biggest advantage of them over open diffs with a full locker. They are 'always' on. And while JTs are never going to be corner carvers, an LSD will provide the same type of benefits in on road driving in a JT as they do in a sports car - toque being actively distributed to wheel with the most traction as opposed to BLD which brakes the spinning wheel. The feel of the two different types of systems (designed to do more or less the same thing) can absolutely be felt.

What I'm saying is that once moving in a straight line, the lsd isn't that much of an advantage over an open diff. If you want to go sideways (think drfit), an lsd is your friend. If you're moving in a straight line in low traction environments, an open diff is fine, even moreso nowadays with all the brake based traction nannies.

Canyon carving is a discussion for another thread, the OP is talking about ice and hard packed snow driving. For what he is describing, an lsd offers little advantage (if any) over an open diff.

 

[Jack D.]

Cornering and gentle hill climbing

 

[dcmdon]

I expect that once 4 motor EVs are common there won’t be much else people want to be on the road in during winter storms (range anxiety being exempted)

Obviously I'm speculating. But I think 4 motor EVs will be a niche vehicle. Because they will always be heavier, more expensive, and more complex than 2 motor EVs.

With BLDs about the only thing a 4 motor EV can do that at 2 motor can't is a tank turn.

Though that is really REALLY cool.

Sponsored