The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[AstroZombie]

People told me it would get better after 5k miles for the engine to break in but for me it didn't actually it went down 1 mpg but I think that has to do with it being wintertime more than anything else.
I'm getting 14 mpg too in the winter, in the summer ~15 mpg on my stock Rubicon. I drive it like a grandma and I can't get that average mpg up!! So frustrating. I'm wondering if I need to regear it or if something is wrong. A lot of people on here are boasting 20 mpg!!! I've even done road trips and the highest I can get is 17 mpg consitantly. I want to get bigger tires but the gas mileage is stopping me. I might just go to 35” tires but if I start getting 12 mpg in gonna be pissed.

I use 88 octane gas, drive like a grandma, I do drive mostly city miles, my engine has 5500 miles on it. I don't have a ton of weight or anything like that, it's just stock.

Can someone please please please tell me if there is anything I can do?

Thanks!

Me too. I have never gotten better than 16.5 and i even did my own calculations for the 1st 6 months and they matched really well with onboard Jeep MPG calculator. Still as bad as my previous vehicle 2004 Tacoma Prerunner. But The jeep offers way more smiles per gallon for sure!!

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[AstroZombie]

3.73 doesn't, either..... (41/11) but it doesn't really matter... they eventually do line up.
I've never seen any differential gears wear sooner or later than others because of the ratio. Too many other factors out there to kill 'em.




And yet my family, and many others, find these seats crazy comfortable. Every "body" is a different size and shape. These seats tend to cradle me, they are the few seats that don't hurt my back or butt after hours of driving, I can take tight corners at speed and I don't slip and slide. In fact I even told Jeep when they contacted me about my initial questionnaire - LOVE the seats, the best Jeep seats I've ever had (and I'm about 30 pounds too heavy for my size)

The lack of dead pedal is likely because the manual transmission is an option in these and it's cost cutting to use the same stampings for all versions. My WJ had a build in left foot rest and it was the most perfect of any I've ever had. The Silverado I was constantly trying to figure out where to put my feet when in cruise mode.

You buy a truck - gotta expect less than great mpg, especially when you buy a Rubicon. That shouldn't even be mentioned because that level, the worst for mpg, was a choice.
Frankly, I'm happy with how the mpg on my truck has been (until I started making changes that killed it, of course - but that was MY choice, my fault, not the truck's fault)
My truck blows my prior truck - Silverado 4x4 extended cab) away in fuel economy and especially when towing. I get 13.9 mpg towing with my Jeep and almost never saw even 13 with my Chevy.

I guess it boils down to how the gear ratio affects the transmission and engine revs. Doesn't really seem like it would be too much of an issue. Aside for a decrease in MPG. I totally purchased my jeep knowing fully that there was very little to no economic advantage to driving a big 4 door box with seeming no aerodynamics. Its bulky, loud inside from wind and i think i am the only person in it that is ever comfortable. I want to drive it everywhere and look for reasons to drive it and take the top off. I drive 30 miles to work 80 mph at 330am with the top off just so i can enjoy the 70 degree sunny drive home because when summer gets here 90 degree on the 78 in Northcounty SD sucks. Ah who am i kidding I'd still go topless.

 

[AstroZombie]

Good:

1. Weight distribution front to rear makes it handle snow surprisingly well in 2WD.
2. Falken ATs are a lot better than I expected, and the stock tire size feels better than I expected. I initially planned to immediately replace them with a set of KO2s in 315/70R17, but now I might run these until they wear out... or at least until I get some money back in my pocket.
3. Great forward visibility over the hood.
4. Better power than the Tacoma.
5. For a pickup, shockingly smooth and cushy on-road ride... I'm coming from a WRX and a Tacoma with a broken frame, so maybe I'm not the best judge of this?
6. The level of tech in the Rubicon is impressive, from Android Auto to the trail cam to the ability to choose whether the heated seats and wheel come on with a remote start.
7. Adaptive cruise control. I didn't know whether I would like it. I like it. I hope the collision avoidance works as well as the ACC.
8. Edit: The truck looks phenomenal. Every time I walk by it, I'm like "dang, that's a good looking truck."

Bad:

1. Why is the windshield so small? I usually drive in a very upright seating position, but I have my seat tilted back as far as I think is safe to get my head low enough to see out the windshield... and I'm not that tall.
2. Gas mileage isn't great, but that isn't a surprise.
3. Why isn't there a place to put my left foot? My Tacoma was also an auto, and it had a nice molded-in dead pedal. My WRX has a nice footrest for when I'm not on the clutch. I have a cheap Amazon dead pedal to install when it's not freezing out, but this was a real disappointment.

Ugly:
The seats suck ass. I cannot for the life of me get comfortable in the driver's seat. I'm constantly sliding forward off the seat and pushing myself back with my left foot (which doesn't have a footrest to push back against). The lumbar support adjusts from bad to worse. The entire seat sits 6 inches too high. The headrest doesn't tilt. After about 15 minutes, I start getting sore. I'm questioning whether I need to invest big bucks in aftermarket seats to make it worth keeping the truck, or if I should just sell it. I can't imagine going on a road trip in this thing.

Mine is way more comfortable than my prerunner HAHA. ACC is nice (my gladiator doesn't have it but we do have a car that does) the only thing with ACC is you can end up cruising at 60mph if your zoned out. you never go faster that the person in front of you but if you're actually managing your travel and see a car coming up in front you change lanes it will not slow you down. Also you can adjust the distance teh sensor sees in front of you.

 

[MikeyK]

Good (Great): Jeep Truck ??

Bad (Annoying): Waiting for delivery when I know it’s done and sitting at the rail yard ?

 

[AstroZombie]

That's why i took one off the dealer lot and a wiz of a brother in law who knows how to work that game like a boss. He just posts up in the lobby with his computer and gets things done. Once that sales person spends all day trying to work a deal he will just walk if he doesn't get what he wants and while he's on the computer he's working another deal online. I do not have the patients for that. He lwasy manages some crazy thing like them cleaning teh rims every week for a year

 

[chaosjake]

Bad:

1. Why is the windshield so small? I usually drive in a very upright seating position, but I have my seat tilted back as far as I think is safe to get my head low enough to see out the windshield... and I'm not that tall.

[...]
Ugly:
The seats suck ass. I cannot for the life of me get comfortable in the driver's seat. I'm constantly sliding forward off the seat and pushing myself back with my left foot (which doesn't have a footrest to push back against). The lumbar support adjusts from bad to worse. The entire seat sits 6 inches too high. The headrest doesn't tilt. After about 15 minutes, I start getting sore. I'm questioning whether I need to invest big bucks in aftermarket seats to make it worth keeping the truck, or if I should just sell it. I can't imagine going on a road trip in this thing.

Well, it took four months, almost 1000 miles, and a dead pedal kit, but I finally figured out a way to sit comfortably in the driver's seat. Counterintuitively, I had to raise the rear of the seat, which improved the angle of the headrest and tends to tilt my line of sight down so I'm looking directly at the road ahead and not over the windshield. With the dead pedal, I am firmly planted in the seat and not sliding forward. The lumbar support could be better, but I'm finally in a place where I actually enjoy driving the truck.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Pretty happy. I am getting 21 mpg with stock Sport S with max tow.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Pretty happy. I am getting 21 mpg with stock Sport S with max tow.

No reason you should not get that sort of mpg with a stock JT like that.
I was easily doing 22-23, easily, until I started making changes. The drop in mpg was my own doing. Even around town it was easy to do 20.
I have pics of the display showing over 23 somewhere. (and I verified that is almost spot on most of the time using my phone to run the numbers so don't get on about that cluster being wrong. It's not)

 

[Mister Lamb]

Good:
- The only convertible pickup truck in the market. I don't find the Freedom Panels a hassle in the slightest.
- A head-turner; the truck looks good
- Decent rear-seat space for my newborn

Bad:
- Shallow truck bed; cooler not fitting w/ bed cover is a bummer. Wheel wells also take up decent chunk making the already smaller truck bed feel even smaller
- Having to buy 3rd party storage solutions for phones/accessories for me and my passenger in the cabin is kind of crazy

Ugly:
- ESS. Why does this exist in any car? The fuel saved is so minuscule that the numerous headaches the technology induces makes it even more infuriating.

 

[AstroZombie]

Ugly:
- ESS. Why does this exist in any car? The fuel saved is so minuscule that the numerous headaches the technology induces makes it even more infuriating.
[/QUOTE]
ESS is not a fuel saver. Its to reduce emission while idle. It really doesn't bother me. Even with my exhaust. You can't tell.

 

[AstroZombie]

Pretty happy. I am getting 21 mpg with stock Sport S with max tow.

I can get a regular 19 on highway in my Rubi. Cruise control and 65mph. Not very fun though so the mpg trade for my heavy foot and nice exhaust is almost worth it.

 

[redriderjf87]

Ugly:
- ESS. Why does this exist in any car? The fuel saved is so minuscule that the numerous headaches the technology induces makes it even more infuriating.

ESS is not a fuel saver. Its to reduce emission while idle. It really doesn't bother me. Even with my exhaust. You can't tell.
[/QUOTE]

I can tell when I go to take off. I don't like when unintended consequences get imposed on me because it looked good to someone else. Especially when they haven't agreed to buy me a new starter.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Ugly:
- ESS. Why does this exist in any car? The fuel saved is so minuscule that the numerous headaches the technology induces makes it even more infuriating.
---
ESS is not a fuel saver. Its to reduce emission while idle. It really doesn't bother me. Even with my exhaust. You can't tell.

You have obviously missed all of my prior posts that include links to INDEPENDENT testing done by other groups.
Edmunds, for example, proved that you can actually exceed the savings touted by the EPA
They tested 3 different cars and got savings on all of them (my wife and I have also proven with our own vehicles that there's a savings you can actually see -DEPENDING on where you drive, the type of traffic and the number of stops involved. We have a LOT of stop lights around here and some actually stop you for a good 2 minutes, I have timed them)

One such example from Edmunds (I have posted a few others) ->

How Much Can You Save?
It turns out the effects of stop-start systems aren't baked into the EPA fuel economy estimates for the very cars that use such systems. The official city test pattern has plenty of stops, but there's not nearly as much idle time as many of us deal with every day. It's entirely possible that a stop-start car could exceed its own city mpg rating with the system engaged.

The engineers we asked about potential fuel savings always spoke in terms of a range of 3-10 percent, with some venturing as high as 12 percent. The wide span accounts for the variety of driving conditions out there. People who pause briefly at four-way stops have less to gain than those who sit idle at numerous long signals. The longer you sit, the more you save.

It boils down to this. If your car usually manages 20 mpg in the city, it could earn 22 or 23 mpg if it had a stop-start system.

We used a modified version of our 106-mile suburban Orange County hybrid test loop, chopping out the longer stretches that lack stops. The resulting 80.4-mile stop-start test loop takes about three hours to complete. We ran each car at least two times on back-to-back days with the same start time: once with the system on and again 24 hours later with the system off.

Our Test Results
For the first couple of tests we attempted to capture the maximum difference, so we ran the BMW and the Jaguar with the air-conditioning off in order to prevent premature restarts triggered by rising cockpit temperatures. Consider it the spring/fall scenario with the windows cracked to let some fresh air inside.

Our 328i GT used 3.1 gallons with the system off and 2.8 gallons with it on, a savings of 9.5 percent. That works out to 91 cents saved in 80 miles. Calculated fuel economy rose from 26.2 to 28.7 mpg.

The Jaguar did a little better, which makes sense when you're talking about a thirstier V8. It consumed 4.1 gallons with the system off and 3.6 with it on, a reduction of some 10.9 percent. At local prices that returned $1.47 to our pocket. Corresponding fuel economy increased from 19.7 to 22.1 mpg.

This, of course, begs the question of what would have happened if we had run the air-conditioning on a hot day. We saved that test for the Mini Cooper. We ran both loops with the automatic temperature control set to 74 degrees.

It used 2.7 gallons with A/C on and stop-start off, and that shrank slightly to 2.6 gallons with stop-start up and running. That works out to a modest fuel savings of 2.9 percent, with fuel economy climbing from 30.0 to 30.9 mpg. At this point we ran a third loop with the system engaged and the air-conditioning off and the savings shot up to 9.5 percent at 33.2 mpg.

What We Learned Along the Way
Hot weather and the use of air-conditioning have a distinct negative effect. The biggest gains come in mild weather.

The Verdict
All three of our test subjects delivered the estimated 10 percent in city traffic. People who live in particularly tough traffic areas with long wait times could do even better.

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I've got info on other testing done by independent entities and all end up very similar. 10% seems not hard to achieve, some get 7-9. Depending on the testing done, the weather and the vehicle, some do worse.
But haters will always hate LOL.
If it didn't work, they wouldn't be doing it.
And as far as the EPA and emissions testing - guess how they get the emissions numbers.......
By the fuel consumed!

The research is out there but it's overshadowed by the haters posting web sites claiming all sorts of stuff that gets copied all over the web and becomes the de facto facts.

If it didn't work, auto makers would not have spent millions or more on it, and the bearing companies have done their own thing coming up with superior bearing materials. There's a ton of R&D invested by many parties in this.

There's also another reason for this and it's expanding little by little - anti-idling laws. Right now most are aimed at diesels, buses and delivery trucks, but some cities are spreading or widening the coverage. In some places, you will be ticketed for idling over xx minutes. In that case it is for emissions. But the car makers also get EPA credits for CAFE when these are incorporated. And again, EPA looks at fuel consumed to calculate emissions. Cut fuel consumption, CAFE numbers go up, emissions go down. We get to keep our internal combustion engines around a bit longer. If you demand it goes away, the ICE goes away that much faster.

Hate it all you want, but if Jeep couldn't use it, then you might just lose some of your precious Jeep options. And it's going to get worse in the coming year or two. If you want choices in vehicles, if you want Wrangler and Gladiator to survive - live with the extremely minor inconveniences. It's such a minor thing for such hate.

 

[Mister Lamb]

It boils down to this. If your car usually manages 20 mpg in the city, it could earn 22 or 23 mpg if it had a stop-start system. [...]
It's such a minor thing for such hate.

I'd rather lose 2-3 MPG than have to deal with a tiny AUX battery that renders my entire truck useless when it dies. If the technology isn't worthy of hate, it's implementation is.

 

[bl1ndman]

My biggest compliant with the ess is the programing. When I go to park I came to a stop, engine turns off, move the selector from D to P and the engine starts again only for me to turn it off!?!? Like WTF Jeep.

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