20k Service Requirements

[Mac]

Just adding some info from changing the fluid on my wife's MDX, it has a ZF 9 speed, the fluid costs around $30 a quart, for the MDX it is a drain and refill, no flush, no pan drop at 50k miles.

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[dcmdon]

Just adding some info from changing the fluid on my wife's MDX, it has a ZF 9 speed, the fluid costs around $30 a quart, for the MDX it is a drain and refill, no flush, no pan drop at 50k miles.

How many quarts did the MDX take?

I'd be curious to know how much comes out of a Gladiator if you just drain it.

 

[Mac]

How many quarts did the MDX take?

I'd be curious to know how much comes out of a Gladiator if you just drain it.

It was around 3.5 quarts, there is no way to measure it like a dipstick so I drained it out into a large plastic pitcher, marked it at the level then emptied the pitcher and filled it with clean fluid and put it back in, it did have a easy to access drain plug and the fill port was on top of the trans not the side making it easy to access and fill back up.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

So then the flush/fill vs drain/fill becomes a question of economics and time.
The filter is in the pan. To do a flush as
We all know the engineering truism that perfect is the enemy of good.

I'm pulling these prices out of thin air because I have no idea what a flush/fill costs.

but if I can do a drain/fill for $25 and do it twice for for $50. (change oil, drive the car for a day, drain and fill again) and a flush/fill costs $300 then the choice is obvious to me.

If the Flush/fill cost $100 well then its different. my time is worth something.

Please excuse my ignorance on this one question - does the AT on a pentastar Gladiator have an external filter? Any filter of any kind?

Thanks

It has an internal filter that has 2 10mm nuts holding it in place on the internal side of the tranny pan. You have to purchase the pan, gasket and 13 fasteners to do a tranny service if your pan doesn’t have a drain plug or maybe just draining it isn’t good enough and you want to change the filter, then you’re buying the pan kit. About $250 cad.

I had the hot flush done yesterday and needed 17.5L to do it. Cost was $300 cad for the flush only, another $310 for the oil. I took it to National Transmission, highly recommended by E-Mortal custom Jeep shop in Calgary. I had been looking around for a shop to do the flush @25k kms as I had glycol in the lab sample I pulled and I wanted it all out, not partial.

They said this 2021 8HP50 ZF tranny is different to the 2020. It has an external pump, 2 coolers and a thermal bypass and something else I can remember. But the challenge was not fun for them but they got it done.

 

[rr11]

I plain on servicing the transmission on my JT at 50-60 K. It may be over kill but if it makes me feel better its all good. That said I have a 03 F250 servicing the trans every 30K after seeing that "service" only replaced 6 quarts of fluid and the truck has a drain plug on the trans I have at every oil change drained and filled the trans. I do not know if this has helped the truck but it is close to 300K on the transmission with no issues.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Back when I worked as a used car tech at a Saab/Subaru dealer we had exactly this problem. (I know nearly nothing about how ATs work. All those oil galleys immediately put my ADHD brain into melt down. Ha. )

We got in a fancy flush machine and the service writers started pushing this service. It was a new way to make money.

Saabs and Subarus tended to last a long time. (Subarus lasted forever if they didn't rust out first) and we started flushing 100k mile cars and problems almost instantly surfaced. We stopped providing the service to cars that were high mile and had never had the service done.

Back in the early 70s I already had my own small engine shop - and did automotive work on the side and at a former AMC dealership shop. I was doing work on almost everything - Opel, Rambler, Triumph, Ford, Chevy, whatever. I was also in high school. The auto shop and machine shop instructors knew me pretty well - and since I was already authorized to do warranty work for Peerless, Jacobsen, B&S, and Tecumseh, I was given a "pass" on the intro mechanics class. I got credit for and skipped the second level automotive class by sitting with the instructor and explaining all of the hydraulic circuits and power flow operation on a C6 automatic, as well as explaining in detail the operation of multiple carburetors including the Holley 4bbl.
So I guess I'm saying they don't bother or scare me. I took a semester of drivetrain in college, including automatic transmissions and when I got a job in a shop after college, the boss found I could do automatic transmissions and added that service to their list where they had been removing them and taking them to another shop. Ironically, that shop was "Bill's Transmission Service". (A couple of years later he decided to retire and tried to get me to buy his shop)

I would only do the flush on newer, more sealed transmissions that use the modern fluids - not the older systems.
The older transmissions tend to have tiny flecks of friction material and larger debris in them than modern transmissions should have. And modern fluids are night and day different from your old Type F, Type A, Dexron, etc. No comparison.
You start flushing high mileage older transmissions you may be asking for trouble.

What I do on such transmissions is to drain 'em, drop the pan and filter, drain the converter if there's a drain and if there's not a drain, I make one. I let it sit several hours open like that and move the gear selector to move at least that "valve" and allow more fluid to drain that might normally.
I can't see putting it together, putting in fluid, driving it and then doing it again. just not needed.

What I do or don't do next depends fully on what I see or don't see when I drop the pan, smell the fluid and clean things up. I have no "one rule fits all" with most things I do - I evaluate the situation and react accordingly.
It's sort of that way with "how often" or "at what miles" would I do something. It depends.......

For DIYers who truly know and don't just think they know, and who have VERY clean work environments, the right tools, the right attitude (they don't think that since snug is good, tight is better and that you fix a leak by tightening pan bolts even more) I'd say if you do more frequent filter and fluid changes, you reduce the risk of things building up to the point of breaking loose. Also - no need to do it over and over to get it all. Do a change say at 30-40K depending on your driving, towing, hauling, SPEEDS, hills and so on, and then again later. Over 100,000 miles you'll end up swapping out all of the fluid in a way and not have to do it 2 or 3 times in a weekend to get it all. That may make a person feel good, but honestly - WHY?
Just do a fluid/filter change and move on. No need to do it again that same week (unless you find something nasty looking). It's just not necessary. Not today, especially, and not unless you have a bad smelling or burned fluid and find a lot of debris.

If in doubt - let a shop do it but don't wait 80-100K miles if you have a flush done. By then you may have things that break loose and get into the valves and shuttles.
I've seen a transmission DESTROYED, literally the case busted, a solenoid broke loose, because of LINT from rags. The clearances in those valve bodies are a fraction of the diameter of a human hair and extreme fine lint, dust, can lock one of those shuttles or valves solid as if it was welded in place. I've pulled the pan on a transmission and seen the filter (it was a TF727) plugged with lint from the cloths the prior person used to wipe off parts as he put it back together! You can't see that stuff, but it's there. Cleanliness isn't next to godliness on these, it IS the very god of transmissions. Can't stress that enough. Many people get lucky - 'hey, I rebuilt my transmission on my garage floor, I know what I'm doing and it works fine. Anyone can do it.'

What's slowing me down on such things now is age/health (back, arthritis, etc.) so I'm not so much into transmission work other than basic service.

but if I can do a drain/fill for $25 and do it twice for for $50. (change oil, drive the car for a day, drain and fill again) and a flush/fill costs $300 then the choice is obvious to me.

Why would you do that? Just drain and clean and put things back, fill it and be done.
Let it drain for more than a few minutes, if there's a converter drain, drain it, but I see no need for a second time unless you pull out really really nasty fluid.
If you haven't waited too long, if it's not burned and/or cruddy with a lot of debris........... one and done would be fine. You aren't flushing it that way, just diluting more of the old fluid - which if not burned or hasn't been overheated, is still fine.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I plain on servicing the transmission on my JT at 50-60 K. It may be over kill but if it makes me feel better its all good. That said I have a 03 F250 servicing the trans every 30K after seeing that "service" only replaced 6 quarts of fluid and the truck has a drain plug on the trans I have at every oil change drained and filled the trans. I do not know if this has helped the truck but it is close to 300K on the transmission with no issues.

Ford got rid of the converter drain plug, I assume. To me the biggest issue with transmission fluid changes is that you still have quarts of fluid in the converter. Granted, with your frequency of changes - that's a non-issue!
After the first time or two of transmission fluid up to my armpits servicing transmissions with no pan drain - I started putting drains in every transmission pan that didn't have one, and same for most torque converters (although that can be a lot more tricky in some cases)

 

[dcmdon]

Why would you do that? Just drain and clean and put things back, fill it and be done.
Let it drain for more than a few minutes, if there's a converter drain, drain it, but I see no need for a second time unless you pull out really really nasty fluid.
If you haven't waited too long, if it's not burned and/or cruddy with a lot of debris........... one and done would be fine. You aren't flushing it that way, just diluting more of the old fluid - which if not burned or hasn't been overheated, is still fine.

I was just suggesting doing it twice as a counter to flushing it.
I'm thinking that a simple drain and fill done at 30k intervals will be fine.
Shoot, offshore boat engines have their oil changed by sucking it out through the dipstick. And some of them last thousands of hours. There is never a cojmplete drain.

 

[dcmdon]

Ford got rid of the converter drain plug, I assume. To me the biggest issue with transmission fluid changes is that you still have quarts of fluid in the converter. Granted, with your frequency of changes - that's a non-issue!
After the first time or two of transmission fluid up to my armpits servicing transmissions with no pan drain - I started putting drains in every transmission pan that didn't have one, and same for most torque converters (although that can be a lot more tricky in some cases)

For a pan drain, just drill and tap? or do you put a Helicoil in??

 

[rr11]

Ford got rid of the converter drain plug, I assume. To me the biggest issue with transmission fluid changes is that you still have quarts of fluid in the converter. Granted, with your frequency of changes - that's a non-issue!
After the first time or two of transmission fluid up to my armpits servicing transmissions with no pan drain - I started putting drains in every transmission pan that didn't have one, and same for most torque converters (although that can be a lot more tricky in some cases)

If that F250 had a converter drain plug it would be wonderful. Not having your level of experience I would never think of trying to install one. I try to know my limits, on ATs dropping the pan replacing filter and fluid it about it.

 

[IamAlan]

At my 15K service the dealer added a flyer with my paperwork that included a bunch of service recommendations for the next (20K) service. It had a bunch of stuff on it including a transmission fluid flush and other assorted stuff that totaled to a whopping $1000 plus bucks.

WTF? Is this just stealership shenanigans or are these actual manufacturer recommended services? I’m suspecting the former…

Most Dealerships cannot get new inventory and have little stock to sell. They're doing everything they can to keep the doors open, including uncharging for unasked for options,, adding "scarcity" price to the List Price, and coming up with new ways to take your money in the service department with things like a flyer recommending nonexistent service intervals.
Hopefully, this whole mess may be the end to the traditional dealership. I see an Apple Store model in the near future. There will be no salesperson, just customer service techs. The price is the price, and there's no haggle. I'm here to help you choose options and talk to you about an extended warranty.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I’ve gotta say that after the 25k km hot flush and replaced the semi-synthetic Mopar 8-9 Seed ATF oil with a full synthetic (ZF compliant) and tranny reflash, this transmission shifts sooooo smooth. It’s a real pleasure. I noticed when I drove it home last night from the tranny shop, the transmission temp read 10c lower than the engine/coolant temps. Today I drove across the city and it consistently reads 10c cooler. It never really ran the same temp as the engine/coolant but it was always close. I’ve probably lowered the tranny temp 5-7c cooler than before.

 

[HWKIGRL]

I got my 20000 service today. (I was actually at 26000) fir some reason when I was at 20000 in TX they only did the normal oil change?!
Anywhoo I took it to my local dealer, and they did the normal oil change and 5 tire rotation as well as changed the engine and cabin air filters and flushed the brake fluid.
They didn’t do my front rear differential but suggested I get it done at my next oil change, said it’s a “little” dark.
It was my last Jeep Wave “free” oil change snd it cost me $470!!!
they had to replace one of my “sound bar” speakers it had rattled out of its casing?! And I needed a software update, my infotainment system (already been replaced) was glitching...all under warranty.

I feel like $470 was steep but maybe I’m wrong?!

 

[Mac]

I got my 20000 service today. (I was actually at 26000) fir some reason when I was at 20000 in TX they only did the normal oil change?!
Anywhoo I took it to my local dealer, and they did the normal oil change and 5 tire rotation as well as changed the engine and cabin air filters and flushed the brake fluid.
They didn’t do my front rear differential but suggested I get it done at my next oil change, said it’s a “little” dark.
It was my last Jeep Wave “free” oil change snd it cost me $470!!!
they had to replace one of my “sound bar” speakers it had rattled out of its casing?! And I needed a software update, my infotainment system (already been replaced) was glitching...all under warranty.

I feel like $470 was steep but maybe I’m wrong?!

So $470 for engine and cabin filter and a brake fluid flush that is not needed? That seems super high $$ to me.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I got my 20000 service today. (I was actually at 26000) fir some reason when I was at 20000 in TX they only did the normal oil change?!
Anywhoo I took it to my local dealer, and they did the normal oil change and 5 tire rotation as well as changed the engine and cabin air filters and flushed the brake fluid.
They didn’t do my front rear differential but suggested I get it done at my next oil change, said it’s a “little” dark.
It was my last Jeep Wave “free” oil change snd it cost me $470!!!
they had to replace one of my “sound bar” speakers it had rattled out of its casing?! And I needed a software update, my infotainment system (already been replaced) was glitching...all under warranty.

I feel like $470 was steep but maybe I’m wrong?!

Did the service advisor say what the moisture reading was in your brake fluid to recommend a flush? I had my 20k km brakes serviced and they just cleaned and greased the callipers. Pads just at 12mm. $170 cad.

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