20k Service Requirements

[ShadowsPapa]

Would you say that was “best practice”?

Not necessarily but then it happened a lot and very few ever had issues. Myself included.
Because they've cheaped-out on on the bearings in these Dana differentials, i won't be ignoring them. I'd bet anything these run hotter and endure more stress than differentials of the past due to the attempt at weight savings, mpg and so on.

As far as the fluid getting dark, etc. - that takes no time at all. Looks don't tell you anything about some hypoid lubes. It's also hard to judge when one person says it's "black" and another says "brown" - what's a black oil to some may be totally different to others. People haven't seen black until they service tractors or diesels.

I'd be more concerned about an actual test on the oil showing issues.
Also - different fluids (like Amsoil vs. Penzoil vs NAPA or whatever) will age differently as far as color or smell.

Mine will get serviced, but not at any 20 or 30K. More likely 40 or 50 because I've seen the pinion bearings on these - I don't trust 'em for high loads, if they were normal tapered roller bearings I might go longer.

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[Gvsukids]

Mine will get serviced, but not at any 20 or 30K. More likely 40 or 50 because I've seen the pinion bearings on these - I don't trust 'em for high loads, if they were normal tapered roller bearings I might go longer.

Flushed?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Flushed?

My transmission will go farther than that - my differentials I'll pull the covers, clean them out, and refill them over 50K (because I don't trust these differentials yet)
Transmission will get done after that. Likely not flushed. not the first time anyway.

 

[rharr]

And god help those of us who 30 years ago drove trucks 100,000 miles - towing and all - with the original hypoid gear lube in the differentials. (and in one case sitting in my garage stored for the winter - 160,000 miles on original lube)

You may have forgotten but the manufacturing model of build it to last died in the 50's to be replaced with design it for MPG only to be replaced with design it for planned obsolescence and low emissions.

As manufacturing tolerance gets tighter so does the wear and tear and heat. I guess that is the trade off for low emissions and better mileage. Plus what's in it for a manufacturer to build a car that lasts 30 years, that just means they lost 5 new car sales if someone was buying a car every 5 years due to planned obsolescence.

 

[dcmdon]

You may have forgotten but the manufacturing model of build it to last died in the 50's to be replaced with design it for MPG only to be replaced with design it for planned obsolescence and low emissions.

As manufacturing tolerance gets tighter so does the wear and tear and heat. I guess that is the trade off for low emissions and better mileage. Plus what's in it for a manufacturer to build a car that lasts 30 years, that just means they lost 5 new car sales if someone was buying a car every 5 years due to planned obsolescence.

Though I generally agree with this sentiment.
I've got to call BS here as it relates to cars.

Modern cars last MUCH longer than cars of the 50s - 80s. I remember my grandfather telling me that a car lasting more than 100,000 miles was a big deal. 150,000 miles was unheard of. Yes, the cars of yesteryear were more easily repaired. And they were designed to be more easily repaired.

But no, they didn't last nearly as long. Maybe its because I've always driven European or Japanese cars, but 150k miles is nothing. I currently own 2 Volvos with 140k and 160k miles each. Neither have had anything more substantial done to them than water pump, power steering pump or alternator. I ran my first Subaru Legacy GT to over 180k miles though ti did have to replace the turbo at 140k-ish miles.

 

[Cape taco12]

For what it’s worth I brought my truck into my dealer for oil change, rear window leak and 20k service.

they charged me just for the oil change and said all fluids looked good and I needed nothing else.

 

[dcmdon]

For what it’s worth I brought my truck into my dealer for oil change, rear window leak and 20k service.

they charged me just for the oil change and said all fluids looked good and I needed nothing else.

I see you are in Mass. So am I.

What dealer was this? This is a good service department.

 

[jac04]

What about getting it nice and warm and sucking as much fluid out as possible through the fill plug. If it costs you $150 in oil and you do it every 15k miles its probably a good solution.

Provided you can get a decent amount out that way.

That's what I did with my JK at about 20k miles, although it is easier on the JK because it has a dipstick. I did 3 consecutive partial fluid changes using an extractor. Each time, I just put back in the same amount I extracted, which is 3 quarts. After 3 exchanges, I end up with about 75% new fluid.

 

[Cape taco12]

OHara in Falmouth

I see you are in Mass. So am I.

What dealer was this? This is a good service department.

 

[dcmdon]

OHara in Falmouth

ahh. shoot. too far away. thanks.

 

[rharr]

Though I generally agree with this sentiment.
I've got to call BS here as it relates to cars.

Modern cars last MUCH longer than cars of the 50s - 80s. I remember my grandfather telling me that a car lasting more than 100,000 miles was a big deal. 150,000 miles was unheard of. Yes, the cars of yesteryear were more easily repaired. And they were designed to be more easily repaired.

But no, they didn't last nearly as long. Maybe its because I've always driven European or Japanese cars, but 150k miles is nothing. I currently own 2 Volvos with 140k and 160k miles each. Neither have had anything more substantial done to them than water pump, power steering pump or alternator. I ran my first Subaru Legacy GT to over 180k miles though ti did have to replace the turbo at 140k-ish miles.

I agree with you my 25 year old xj had 250k on it, was still going strong on the original motor and 5 speed trans before i sold it early this year. It seems we are going backwards some times on the new stuff. If you can build a axle and use a oil that doesn't burn up in 3k back in the 90's why can't that be repeated now?

I guess that's my point with my post above. Yes modern car go longer but it seems the stuff that use to not break on old cars, breaks/breaks down sooner on newer, and the stuff that did break on old cars doesn't break on new stuff.

Maybe it's a perception thing, older = easier to work on, less fiddly bits, newer = harder to work on, greater demands for less, more fiddly bits.

 

[dcmdon]

I agree with you my 25 year old xj had 250k on it, was still going strong on the original motor and 5 speed trans before i sold it early this year. It seems we are going backwards some times on the new stuff. If you can build a axle and use a oil that doesn't burn up in 3k back in the 90's why can't that be repeated now?

I guess that's my point with my post above. Yes modern car go longer but it seems the stuff that use to not break on old cars, breaks/breaks down sooner on newer, and the stuff that did break on old cars doesn't break on new stuff.

Maybe it's a perception thing, older = easier to work on, less fiddly bits, newer = harder to work on, greater demands for less, more fiddly bits.

I do agree with this. It does seem like obsolescence is being built in now. But I'd say this is in the last 6 or 7years.

My wife's 2015 Volvo has this great telematics system that lets us start it, lock it and unlock it. It uses a primitive even for 2015 3G modem. Well, a few months ago Volvo said they were end-of-life-ing all telematic based services because ATT is shutting down their 3G network.

There's just one problem. The car was sold with a 10 year auto call for help if you are in an accident feature. And we aren't near 10 years. There's confusion about what Volvo is going to do. Replace the modem, give a cash payout, or just do nothing and wait for the class action suit.

Think about Teslas that are designed to be opened with your cell phone. Want to bet that won't work in 15 years?

So far in our jeeps if something like USB and CarPlay become obsolete, you haven't materially reduced the value of the vehicle. But so many cars are rolling computers on wheels and as you know the life span of a computer is about 5 years.

But with all that said, her 2015 Volvo with 80k and my 2007 with 140k both still drive like new. Everything else works. They don't burn oil, the (stainless) exhaust is still solid, etc.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Not necessarily but then it happened a lot and very few ever had issues. Myself included.
Because they've cheaped-out on on the bearings in these Dana differentials, i won't be ignoring them. I'd bet anything these run hotter and endure more stress than differentials of the past due to the attempt at weight savings, mpg and so on.

As far as the fluid getting dark, etc. - that takes no time at all. Looks don't tell you anything about some hypoid lubes. It's also hard to judge when one person says it's "black" and another says "brown" - what's a black oil to some may be totally different to others. People haven't seen black until they service tractors or diesels.

I'd be more concerned about an actual test on the oil showing issues.
Also - different fluids (like Amsoil vs. Penzoil vs NAPA or whatever) will age differently as far as color or smell.

Mine will get serviced, but not at any 20 or 30K. More likely 40 or 50 because I've seen the pinion bearings on these - I don't trust 'em for high loads, if they were normal tapered roller bearings I might go longer.

Relevant post:
I had my 21 JTR (31k kms) in yesterday to have the tech locate a whine noise coming from where I thought was from the transfer case and the tech heard the noise but couldn’t find it. The service advisor said that the oil in the trans case was still good and didn’t need changing and I said I had changed it last Friday night and I sent a sample to the lab. She asked why would I change before the recommended 48k kms? I said because I thought the whine was coming from there and the lab analysis will confirm the oil is bad or it’s still good.

I got the lab result back with HIGH Iron which is highlighted from the lab with ALERT to change the oil (@31k kms). I called the lab tech today and asked for his opinion as to the highlighted high iron content in the oil. He said “we normally don’t see iron that high in T cases BUT we do in JEEPS. I don’t know why other than the metals are softer.”

Hence, (my opinion, do your services earlier than later especially if it’s the first one. ) I let the lab tell me when to change the oils, not the book or service advisor, and especially full flush early on the really expensive ZF transmission youre told not to touch. I’m sure glad I did.

Oh ya, I found where my whine is coming from…the idler pulley wheel bearing blew its seal and screaming in the stethoscope.

 

[Klutch]

Most dealers have a Bilstein transmission flush machine. Typically, they lease the machine. Every time it get used, Bilstein gets a cut and the dealer gets a cut. It's a lot of money for something that's completely unnecessary. This is why it's often referred to as, "The Bilstein Wallet Flush".

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Most dealers have a Bilstein transmission flush machine. Typically, they lease the machine. Every time it get used, Bilstein gets a cut and the dealer gets a cut. It's a lot of money for something that's completely unnecessary. This is why it's often referred to as, "The Bilstein Wallet Flush".

It became necessary for me to flush mine @24k kms as my tranny oil analysis found not only extreme levels of copper and iron but also glycol. I personally don’t want to see those elevated numbers in there but I definitely don’t want glycol in the mix. I showed the report to my service manager and also to National Transmission who was already booked to do the flush and both parties commented glycol in the oil is troubling and concerning. The lab ALERTED to change the oil and filter. So I did.

You wouldn’t know anything if a lab doesn’t sample it.

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