'23 Gladiator Sport S Towing

[boater2018]

I have a '23 Gladiator Sport S. I towed a 21' Ski Boat with it last year that weighed 3600# dry plus trailer, etc, guessing it weighed probably 53-5400# total. I only added a Class IV hitch, so it doesn't have the max tow or trailer tow package. It pulled the boat fine, no overheating, not a speed demon, but handled it fine. We purchased a 24' Ski Boat and it, of course, weighs more. I figure it totals about 6000#. It is noticeably heavier and very sluggish starting out. I am debating on what to do. I either plan to sell it and find one with the Max Tow package, go back to a full size truck (probably an F150), or keep it and do a gear swap to 4:56 or 4:88 and either add a fan controller, or HD fan and 240 amp alternator. I only tow about 2 miles round trip to the boat ramp, and if I fuel up on land, maybe 10 miles round trip, so I'm not towing far at all. When we first purchased the boat, I towed it about 1 hour and 20 minutes and monitored my temps while towing and it never got too hot. I guess I'm wondering if anyone has towed with both the 3:73 and 4:10 gears (standard tow vs max tow) and was the difference very noticeable? Part of me thinks keeping it and going 4:56 or 4:88 might be better than the max tow's 4:10 ratio. I know there are more components to the max tow than the gears and fan, but the gears and cooling seem to be the most critical when I'm right around the 6k mark, maybe a little over, that the standard trailer tow package is rated for. Any thoughts/first hand experience? I have pics of the boat hitched up and you really can't even see noticeable sag.

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[Dilly’S Willy]

You didn't state whether you have an auto or manual, but I'm guessing you have the auto?

The class IV tow package (have it on my 21 Willys, really just a sport s with a combo package) and you're correct, the main additional components are: hitch, fan, alternator...and the max tow adds 4.10, wide axles, and different rear springs.

If you have an auto, your choices are better than those of us with a manual, as you have 2 more gears to use while driving, and a re-gear will be more noticeable. If you don't plan on adding a bunch of static weigh to your truck (bumpers, winch, audio system, air, etc) and don't tow big/long hills/mountains, 4.56 should be fine for you (especially from 3.73). If any of the above applies to you, go 4.88 (or if you have a manual).

I highly considered 4.56 for my manual, but I know I'll be adding plenty of weight and towing/hauling a couple times a month (more when my 450 is running again), and live in a VERY hilly area (almost 1000' elevation change every 10 miles with stop-n-go to 55mph), so 4.88 makes more sense. If I lived in the desert, 4.56 probably wouldn't have been too bad until you go up the mountains.

FYI: 4.88 is the highest you'll want to go from what I've read on D44s and up to 35s. Something about bracing axle tubes or something for 37+ or 5.13+ gearing due to the pitch/angle on the ring/pinion contact patch being less above 4.88 gearing on D44s. I could be wrong and parroting misinformation, but if so I'm sure someone will correct me.

 

[Janster]

My 1/2 cent….
It sounds like you don’t have the Max Tow package?
What’s your towing package? Is it like 4,000 lbs without the Max Tow?
The towing capacity doesn’t officially change just because you added a Class IV hitch or anything else. You already know, there’s much more to it than that.

Personally…. If that were me? I’d buy a fullsize. Even if you had the max towing capacity 7,700lbs….and you tow close to that amount - it can become a ‘less than comfortable’ driving experience especially up at highway speeds.

The experiences I’ve had with towing 6,500 lbs with a V8 Grand Cherokee with similar tow rating… was not fun on the highway (especially going downhill). We ended up trading up to a Dodge Ram. Much easier & relaxing driving experience.

 

[IamPro2A]

My 1/2 cent….
It sounds like you don’t have the Max Tow package?
What’s your towing package? Is it like 4,000 lbs without the Max Tow?
The towing capacity doesn’t officially change just because you added a Class IV hitch or anything else. You already know, there’s much more to it than that.

Personally…. If that were me? I’d buy a fullsize. Even if you had the max towing capacity 7,700lbs….and you tow close to that amount - it can become a ‘less than comfortable’ driving experience especially up at highway speeds.

The experiences I’ve had with towing 6,500 lbs with a V8 Grand Cherokee with similar tow rating… was not fun on the highway (especially going downhill). We ended up trading up to a Dodge Ram. Much easier & relaxing driving experience.

I would agree with most of the above, if the OP hadn't said he usually only tows 1 single mile each way, and a max of 10 miles round trip. So not far, probably pretty minor terrain given their location, and probably not highway speeds.

One thing not mentioned is tire size. If they are on stock tires for the Sport S, going to 4:56 or 4:88s might be a little rough at highway speeds for the other 99.99% of the time driving.

The other thing is the LEGAL towing capacity doesn't change even if you swapped in every single part of the max tow package.

That all said, if staying on stock tires, swapping to 4:10s would probably make your short tows more comfortable without sacrificing highway driving and fuel economy or the other aspects of owning a JT over a full-size truck. I don't think the HD cooling and charging upgrades will even be noticeable on such short tows.

 

[boater2018]

I would agree with most of the above, if the OP hadn't said he usually only tows 1 single mile each way, and a max of 10 miles round trip. So not far, probably pretty minor terrain given their location, and probably not highway speeds.

One thing not mentioned is tire size. If they are on stock tires for the Sport S, going to 4:56 or 4:88s might be a little rough at highway speeds for the other 99.99% of the time driving.

The other thing is the LEGAL towing capacity doesn't change even if you swapped in every single part of the max tow package.

That all said, if staying on stock tires, swapping to 4:10s would probably make your short tows more comfortable without sacrificing highway driving and fuel economy or the other aspects of owning a JT over a full-size truck. I don't think the HD cooling and charging upgrades will even be noticeable on such short tows.

That's what I've been thinking as well. I have Mojave tires and wheels, so they are 285s vs the stock 245s, so I am up in tire size some amount. Also, Auto transmission as previously asked. Thank you

 

[IamPro2A]

I had no issues still towing 6000lbs after I went to 285/70s on my 4.10 Sport S max tow with a/t. Yes, the max tow has the slightly wider axles, but again I do not thing it would make a difference for you in a few miles of local driving.

 

[IamPro2A]

I am still slightly surprised that the '25 Rubicon gets noticeably worse mpg than the '21 max tow with the same trans, gears, and tires (and computer adjusted for the tire change), but the Rubi does seem to wind the gears more.

Which brings up another point now that you mention going to taller tires. Make sure to reprogram the computer for the correct tire size (and gear ratio if you go that route too). On these newer vehicles, it does a lot more than just correct the speedometer. If you haven't done it yet, I might even suggest that before regearing. The change in transmission parameters might be all you need for such limited towing.

 

[boater2018]

I am still slightly surprised that the '25 Rubicon gets noticeably worse mpg than the '21 max tow with the same trans, gears, and tires (and computer adjusted for the tire change), but the Rubi does seem to wind the gears more.

Which brings up another point now that you mention going to taller tires. Make sure to reprogram the computer for the correct tire size (and gear ratio if you go that route too). On these newer vehicles, it does a lot more than just correct the speedometer. If you haven't done it yet, I might even suggest that before regearing. The change in transmission parameters might be all you need for such limited towing.

Would the dealer do that? I assume they would charge something?

 

[Gvsukids]

Would the dealer do that? I assume they would charge something?

They would and could. Or buy a device that will do that for less.

 

[IamPro2A]

Would the dealer do that? I assume they would charge something?

So, I'm guessing you did NOT have the computer reprogrammed?
That might make all the difference in the word, since you have effectively changed the overall gearing, but without telling the computer, which factors all that into how it tells your transmission to shift.
Your dealer may or may not do it, depending on your dealer. Most likely they will charge you a few hundred bucks if they do. Other options range from buying a programming app like Jscan or AlfaOBD and the appropriate cables and dongle and doing it yourself. By the time you do that, you will probably be over $100, but you will own the tools to make the change as often as you want, as well as many other changes. You can by a stand-alone programmer like the Taser JL and Taser JL lite. More money, but also more features, including things that can't be done with the cheaper options, like disabling the auto start stop system. Or you can find someone in your local Jeep community who has the ability to do it for ya for the cost of a beer.

 

[Labswine]

Yes, reprogramming after changing gears or even tire size is necessary. The computer has pre-programmed fuel curves as well as timing curves for stock gears and tire sizes. Change tires and gears and performance will definitely suffer.

I had a '96 RAM 4x4 Extracab with the 5.2L V-8, and tow package on it. When I first got it, I was averaging 18 MPG in general driving and saw 20 MPG on the highway. I bought it used and it still had factory tires. When it came time to replace those tires, I went bigger. Suddenly, if I saw 14 MPG on the highway, it was a miracle. I tried everything I could to fix the issue, like indexing the distributor, new plugs, opened up the intake, lotsa stuff. What would have cured that would have been to simply replace the speedo gear. The correct speedo gear ratio would have reconciled the confusion in the PCM between programmed fuel/timing curves and what the speedometer was showing vs. what the engine was trying to do.

When I put bigger tires on my '96 Grand Cherokee Laredo (I-6) I changed out the speedo gear to reflect in increase in tire geometry. Negligible differences in changes to fuel economy (lost maybe 1/2 MPG due to increased rolling resistance).

Today's vehicles get their speed input from a tone ring placed on the ABS sensor. Can't simply change a gear. This is why programmers are needed to change settings to account for different (from factory) gearing and tire geometry.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

How about a pic of the new boat?

 

[IamPro2A]

Today's vehicles get their speed input from a tone ring placed on the ABS sensor. Can't simply change a gear. This is why programmers are needed to change settings to account for different (from factory) gearing and tire geometry.

Yea, but now you don't have to get dirty, and you don't have to change out speedo gears every time you make a change. And for the most part, you can even tweak the setting to account for variances in tire brand and air pressure. No longer are you stuck picking the green gear, the pink gear or the grey gear. Whatever came closest.

 

[boater2018]

How about a pic of the new boat?

 

[Wharton]

I’ve run 3.73 and 4.10 and 4.10 definitely feels better off the line and less strained. Not a massive difference, but noticeable.
At 6k you’re basically maxed out. For short ramp trips you could regear to 4.56 and it’ll feel way better than 4.10. If you plan to tow it a lot, though, a half ton will just do it easier.

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