3.6 Engine - Now I understand the power issue

[Teqsand]

This is so much horse hockey its laughable. I ran 37” tires on my 2014 JK with 4.10 gears until I bought my Gladiator in January, and never felt I needed a gear change. I run the same 37” MT AT tires on my Gladiator and don’t see a reason for gear change.

I’ve posted elsewhere that I swap gears for folks in my shop, and have done one Gladiator with 5:38 gears for towing, so I can swap my own gears for the cost of parts and a Saturday’s worth of work…not happening anytime soon….

So what you're saying is you can take a JLU or JT throw 37's on it and you will see seventh and eighth gear as normal. Because both our JLU and JT diesels do.... and tell me about your mileage

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[biodiesel]

It's always interesting to read about the Ram guys who had both the Hemi and EcoDiesel. Every single one said as much as they liked the Hemi, the EcoDiesel outshined the Hemi when it came to towing and low speed operation. Even though the Hemi had more horsepower and the torque was nearly the same, the EcoDiesel utilized the power better in an RPM range that mattered.

Likewise, I remember when TFL and others were comparing the EcoDiesel Wrangler/Gladiator to the Pentastar for off-roading. It was no contest, the EcoDiesel had much better driving characteristics simply because the power was in an RPM range that mattered.

Low-end torque simply can't be beat, which is why many have high hopes for the twin turbo Hurricane Inline 6.

 

[peterdaniel]

To this day, I dont know ONE person with a CP4 pump failure in an ecodiesel especially in a JL and none in a JT

 

[peterdaniel]

It's always interesting to read about the Ram guys who had both the Hemi and EcoDiesel. Every single one said as much as they liked the Hemi, the EcoDiesel outshined the Hemi when it came to towing and low speed operation. Even though the Hemi had more horsepower and the torque was nearly the same, the EcoDiesel utilized the power better in an RPM range that mattered.

Likewise, I remember when TFL and others were comparing the EcoDiesel Wrangler/Gladiator to the Pentastar for off-roading. It was no contest, the EcoDiesel had much better driving characteristics simply because the power was in an RPM range that mattered.

Low-end torque simply can't be beat, which is why many have high hopes for the twin turbo Hurricane Inline 6.

Exactly. What good is torque if you have to rev the snot out of it

 

[Lost1wing]

I think the horror stories are mostly on the GM and Fords. The EcoDiesel got the Bosch wear package (best in class). We have lots of EcoDiesel guys on the forum/facebook groups with 300,000+ miles without any CP4 pump failures. It's fairly rare to hear of a CP4 pump failure on the Ram 1500 diesel forum. Lubricity is the biggest issue. CP4 pumps don't fail in Europe.

My wife cousin's Ram didn’t last 2 years. Pump grenaded and he was working out other electrical gremlins. He had his cp4 replaced under warranty(20k miles?) and traded in for a Colorado. The Colorado is gone now and he's in a Ford f150. He hates them all!

 

[Lost1wing]

To this day, I dont know ONE person with a CP4 pump failure in an ecodiesel especially in a JL and none in a JT

I know 1 person, and it was a while ago. Knowing my wifes cousin, he probably ran it low on fuel more than once.

 

[professorkx]

So what you're saying is you can take a JLU or JT throw 37's on it and you will see seventh and eighth gear as normal. Because both our JLU and JT diesels do.... and tell me about your mileage

Generally, I see 7th as the normal gear with 8th gear on more flat terrain. In the mountains, I don’t see 8th on the uphills, only the downhills.

with that said, why is that an issue? Should I swap gears to then be running in 8th normally and get no benefit on downhills or driving flat terrain as I currently enjoy? Why does that make any sense, as that seems to be what you are suggesting.

I have a 6.7 diesel in the f550 chassis on my adventure motorhome and the only thing I detest is that stupid DEF fluid. Love everything else about the 6.7 diesel.

let’s switch to the discussion of the diesel in the Gladiator. First, I would have loved to buy a diesel Gladiator…except for the DEF. However, would I opt for a diesel and get to deal with all the cooling issues in the Gladiator diesel? Nope, not a chance.

Quite frankly, on the trails in Moab (I spend 3-4 weeks there every year) it’s not going to matter if you have a diesel or the 3.6…

for mileage, I see mid 16 mpg. A diesel will get better mileage, but you have to factor in that diesel is more expense than gas and include the cost of DEF. The diesel will still cost less than the gas to drive 1,000 miles, but mpg does not tell the whole story. Would I opt for a diesel to get better mpg and get to deal with the cooling issues? Not a chance.

I’m glad you enjoy your diesel Gladiator, but making stupid statements that all 3.6 motors with 37” tires require a gear change just makes you seem uniformed…at the very least…

 

[biodiesel]

To this day, I dont know ONE person with a CP4 pump failure in an ecodiesel especially in a JL and none in a JT

Stellantis did an internal investigation and found less than a 1% failure rate. The wear package on the EcoDiesel is best in class, so there's some room for error. It's a mistake not to run biodiesel or a fuel additive just to be safe. There are still too many places selling diesel that doesn't meet the minimum lubricity specification for the CP4 pump.

A buddy of mine logged approximately 550,000 miles on his 2015 Ram EcoDiesel before he had the new recalled pump installed. He religiously runs a fuel additive.

 

[biodiesel]

Exactly. What good is torque if you have to rev the snot out of it

The Ram Hemi guys said that listening to the high RPMS while towing was exhausting. Meanwhile, the EcoDiesel is a quiet low RPM operation with less downshifting.

Again, I think the Pentastar and Hemi are good engines, but there are advantages that the diesel has. There's no perfect engine. I'm just glad that Ram/Jeep gave costumers a powertrain choice.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Exactly. What good is torque if you have to rev the snot out of it

And yet what do you do at the race track? 6,000-7,000+ RPM?
So you have to rev it.

I "get" the low end torque - that's missing from most modern engines. Heck, the 4.0 was long in tooth, but that low end torque was hard to beat. You could off-idle up an incline in 3rd, 1400 rpm, give it some gas and it would obey and go.

But it's purely a purpose thing. If you NEED the low end torque - go for it. But if you don't, what does it really matter other than diesel chest puffing any time a gasser is mentioned.
Our engines are far far better and our choice is superior is all we hear.
No wonder one end of the building in college hated the other end (where the diesel guys were). There was quite an attitude, even back then.

How many times do the diesel guys have to prove superiority?

If you want and need it - buy it. If you don't - like most, then don't.
I grew up with a normal engine speed of 3,000+ RPM on the highway. I'm not afraid of RPM, it doesn't bother me a bit.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

for mileage, I see mid 16 mpg. A diesel will get better mileage, but you have to factor in that diesel is more expense than gas and include the cost of DEF.

and tell me about your mileage

That's like the government talking there - so you get more miles per gallon - but at what cost?
You guys love to leave out the whole story.

I did a price comparison (actually, a couple of times) using actual local fuel prices. It was a WASH in fuel cost per mile. So the bragging can stop.
The initial extra cost, increased maintenance costs over time, other factors (and in the JT - the slightly less tow rating).
So what if you get 26 or 27 mpg if the other costs wipe that out?

There are advantages, and there are disadvantages.

 

[Stan H]

EU requires it over there.

I know for a while people were saying - even in these forums - that the EU didn't have failures because our EPA cut sulfur out and our regs were more restrictive. I wondered and did some research. Turns out the EU is more restrictive, but, they require the fuel be lubricative. They even have requirements for that. We allow more sulfur, but don't give a rip if the fuel lubricates.

That is the reason in some bigger diesels fellas swear by bio-diesels such as converted vegetable oil as it adds bunch more lubricate to the mix but I dont believe 3.0 allows for any percentage of bio-diesel.

I wonder if there was a way to make it accept it ?

 

[biodiesel]

How many times do the diesel guys have to prove superiority?

I don't think the diesel guys are trying to prove superiority. Instead, they are staying with the theme of this thread which is "3.6 Engine - Now I understand the power issue". Most diesel guys value low-end torque, fuel efficiency, towing ability, and other performance characteristics of the diesel. That's doesn't mean the diesel is superior to the Pentastar, it simply means the diesel doesn't have the power issue that some believe is Pentastar's weak point.

 

[biodiesel]

That is the reason in some bigger diesels fellas swear by bio-diesels such as converted vegetable oil as it adds bunch more lubricate to the mix but I dont believe 3.0 allows for any percentage of bio-diesel.

I wonder if there was a way to make it accept it ?

The 2014 - 2023 EcoDiesel came factory with B20 rating. There are some guys that run as much as B50 in the EcoDiesel, but you have to make sure the fuel is high quality. Biodiesel is hygroscopic, so it can absorb water if it's not handled and stored properly.

 

[Teqsand]

To this day, I dont know ONE person with a CP4 pump failure in an ecodiesel especially in a JL and none in a JT

I lost a pump with 2500 miles on the 22 JTRD I ordered. 9k in costs to fix it, I told jeep i didnt trust it and jeep bought it back, so I ordered a 23 JTRD. ( I still have the 22 in my app So I get to see its maintenance history and it's i had several problems since I bought it back. It's in arkansas now)

30K on JTRD now with the recall, also have a 21 JLURD with 70k on it and the recall done (both the same day)

Love my diesels other than the def, but I also dont like the old black smoke

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