3.6 Engine - Now I understand the power issue

[ShadowsPapa]

The post I quoted is talking about Broncos not stealing market share from Jeep. I am suggesting they are. I don’t think the audience is that different. A lot of people just want a vehicle that looks rugged and tough with no intentions of using it for more than a street queen.

This is from last November (2024), I wonder how 2025 did.........

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[Wheelin98TJ]

This is from last November (2024), I wonder how 2025 did.........

Up quite a bit in 2025.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Up quite a bit in 2025.

I'll say. Quite a bit. That HAS to bit into Wrangler sales.

I wonder what happened in 24. Ford even reassigned employees due to the drop and as they said "adjust and compensate for left-over 2024 on the lot".

But they have been pretty aggressive in marketing - unlike Jeep that has pretty ho-hum ads if they have any at all. Ford, great vehicle or not, doesn't matter - they know how to advertise, spend a lot on it, and are marketing champs compared to Jeep. I think whoever is running Jeeps marketing department died at their desk.
Today - 3 Ford commercials, including Bronco. Jeep - nothing, not even a whimper.

 

[Flyin6]

Sulfur isn't necessary - EU has a much lower sulfur content by law and has for quite a while. However, they do require it lubricate via other means.

Whether sulfur is or is not necessary in diesel fuel depends on what else may have been added to the fuel to increase lubricity. The thing is, Sulfur is a lubricant when found in the proper quantity. I have read that figures as low as 5,000 PPM could adequately lubricate high-pressure fuel pumps and injectors, and I believe that was the standard in the 1990s.
Several events occurred starting in the 1990s. First of all, emissions standards began tightening up on gasoline and a little on diesel fuel. The larger factor was the onset of much higher fuel pressure of 36,000 psi or even greater. HPFPs were working pretty hard at that point and needed adequate lubrication, which they had. Moving forward to today, with high pressures in virtually all diesel engines and sulfur content at an all-time low of 15ppm, or even 10ppm, we have a perfect storm brewing against the longevity of fuel pumps and injectors. Factor in the ever-increasing price and refineries' unwillingness to add proper lubricants, and we have the issues we have today.
Having said all that, it is still somewhat of a mystery why the CP3 is better off than the CP4 in this application. The little 3.0 doesn't require the massive amount of fuel the -3 can produce, whereas our 800HP V8 diesels can suck that -3 pump dry!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Whether sulfur is or is not necessary in diesel fuel depends on what else may have been added to the fuel to increase lubricity. The thing is, Sulfur is a lubricant when found in the proper quantity. I have read that figures as low as 5,000 PPM could adequately lubricate high-pressure fuel pumps and injectors, and I believe that was the standard in the 1990s.
Several events occurred starting in the 1990s. First of all, emissions standards began tightening up on gasoline and a little on diesel fuel. The larger factor was the onset of much higher fuel pressure of 36,000 psi or even greater. HPFPs were working pretty hard at that point and needed adequate lubrication, which they had. Moving forward to today, with high pressures in virtually all diesel engines and sulfur content at an all-time low of 15ppm, or even 10ppm, we have a perfect storm brewing against the longevity of fuel pumps and injectors. Factor in the ever-increasing price and refineries' unwillingness to add proper lubricants, and we have the issues we have today.
Having said all that, it is still somewhat of a mystery why the CP3 is better off than the CP4 in this application. The little 3.0 doesn't require the massive amount of fuel the -3 can produce, whereas our 800HP V8 diesels can suck that -3 pump dry!

I believe the EU max is 10. But they also have additives to lubricate, which I believe is also a mandate

 

[Flyin6]

I believe the EU max is 10. But they also have additives to lubricate, which I believe is also a mandate

They do (have additives).
The last time I was in Northern Italy, I rented an Alfa Romeo. It had a turbo diesel engine. At the petrol station, there were many grades of diesel and only one or two grades of gasoline. I was shocked to see so many choices for diesel. They are way ahead of us on that whole scene

 

[ericw.]

Which of us will complaint about cooling issues…LOL.

My 3.6 will complain about cooling the entire trip. Coolant temp will see 235 degrees on the trail with ease, 245 degrees on any highway mountain pass while it bogs down. Temps will climb until self-destruction if I don't back off.

It's one of the biggest reasons I have my 3.6 for sale right now and I'm swapping to the eco diesel.

 

[ericw.]

Gee, should take you up on that....................

Looks to me that on average, a 3.6 Jeep would win.

IMO this is misleading.. because I know for a fact that a 3.6 in a mini-van with auto trans configuration and standard street tires will light up the tires.

That's not as easy in a Wrangler configuration for whatever reason, that I don't care to dig deep enough into engine/drivetrain specifics to understand.

 

[legacy_etu]

How about the design to engineering to production cycle? There are reasons, not excuses, that things aren't happening for 2026. It takes time and money. Even what some deem as simple changes can't happen until there's a refresh. Not an excuse, a reason.
Ford started from the ground up with a new product. Jeep started with an existing platform.
Next time around things will likely be different.
Fines were not an excuse, but a reason.
Heat rejection wasn't an excuse, but a reason.
A new design, different front end, it will come. Better cooling will come.

I’m an Engineer in R&D in a huge company. I do know a thing or two about the development cycle .

 

[Thunderspud]

IF YOU'VE EVER DRIVEN THE DIESEL, YOU'LL UNDERSTAND

I had a diesel Gladiator, it was great. No issues at all. So I sold it and bought this truck with the 3.6. Decided I wanted to row gears. Still love it. Still no issues. People can want different things out of their vehicles.

 

[DanW]

Ok, ill play.... you take your 3.6 rubicon, ill take my 3.0 rubicon.... we are allowed the same two modifications, say a 4" lift and 37's .... then we drive 500 miles to go wheeling in even an easy trail in Moab..
which of us will complain about power?

Which one will be more likely to complain about it breaking down?

 

[Morris]

Before i had my f150 i had an 08 ranger. 254 ft lbs isnt a lot. I looked at tacos and decided real quick it would have been a 4door ranger. Underpowered with 4 doors. So i went f150 with coyote.

yet here i am 13 years later looking at getting an underpowered gladiator.

id love to see a 5.7L in them for not a lot of extra money. For now im looking at a clearance 2025 or ordering a 2026.

 

[BlackRuby23]

Yep!
If you drive on mostly flat terrain with minimal cargo the 3.6 is fine.
Start loading the truck up and navigating some serious hills etc. and the need for more power becomes pretty evident.

Hard disagree. I'm at 6,000+ feet for 6 months every year. I have never needed more power. This Jeep rips up and down the passes. 8k feet? No problemo. I'm passing people left and right. It likes to rev, sure, but I think it's meant to eat at 4,500 rpm in the steep mountains.

 

[Zachanadandy]

My 3.6 will complain about cooling the entire trip. Coolant temp will see 235 degrees on the trail with ease, 245 degrees on any highway mountain pass while it bogs down. Temps will climb until self-destruction if I don't back off.

It's one of the biggest reasons I have my 3.6 for sale right now and I'm swapping to the eco diesel.

Why would it bog down on mountain passes? The 3.6L makes peak power at 6200rpm. It will roll right near there climbing a steep grade, even with an 8k pounds trailer behind it, with factory 4.10s and 37s. Either its a manual and your driving it wrong, you're manually shifting the 8 speed and doing that wrong, or there's something wrong with your transmission controller. The only time I've ever mine climbing near overheating was a 85mph up grades in the desert in 100⁰+ weather... and even then it was because there was a bunch of mud between the ac condenser and radiator. It looked clean from in front, but over 20 minutes of spraying through the front grill with the pressure washer was needed before the water coming out the bottom was clear. Haven't had the issue since on the same hills at the same speed even when it was 113⁰. Aside from manually shifting you can't bog the thing down. Even geared as tall as I am I'd be at 6k rpm at 30mph in 1st gear... downshift or let the trans do it automatically.

 

[DanW]

My 3.6 will complain about cooling the entire trip. Coolant temp will see 235 degrees on the trail with ease, 245 degrees on any highway mountain pass while it bogs down. Temps will climb until self-destruction if I don't back off.

It's one of the biggest reasons I have my 3.6 for sale right now and I'm swapping to the eco diesel.

Something is wrong with it. I have two and neither have ever seen those temps, towing, in mountains, or crawing in 100+ degree heat in the desert.

I´ve seen plenty of stories of the diesels overheating, though. You might be jumping from the frying pan into the fire there.

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