Almost Lost My Rear Wheel Today

[bgenlvtex]

That is a hub piloted assembly.

Disparity in the (hub) pilot dimension and the wheel bore dimension will result in a wheel off sooner or later.

Honestly I would be surprised to find that JK/JL/JT are not the same bore dimension.

If the wheel has run loose it is ruined, absolutely. That probably explains the bore disparity.

It warms an old tire man's heart to see so many promoting (correctly) the use of a proper torque wrench when installing wheels.

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[Proximo]

Are you bragging or confessing to your vice

We got a glims into one of Shadowspapa addictions

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Are the wheels OEM or aftermarket? I ask because OEM wheels provide clearance for a small clip that is sometimes used on the manufacturing line to hold the brake disk in place as the vehicle moves down the line. When installing aftermarket wheels, they usually don't provide clearance for that clip. So, the installer needs to remove them. If they don't, then the wheel will not set fully against the axle, and gradual rocking will cause the lug nuts to work loose. If you look at this image, you can see a couple of them on the lugs ...

https://www.quadratec.com/products/56204_910X_PG.htm#&gid=1&pid=1

That reminds me of when I first got my 73 Javelin - the PO (previous owner) installed old-school mags on it. I noticed the rear wheels were a bit loose, one loose enough it chewed the holes egg-shaped. I pulled the wheels (I was replacing wheels and tires anyway) and found that the wheels he installed were totally flat on the back. The AMC aluminum and steel wheels had recesses made into them to clear the THREE bolts that held the brake drum onto the rear axle hubs. So the wheels were not flat against the hub.
Solution was easy - take a drill bit and drill a recess into the mags about a quarter inch deep between each lug hole but people don't bother - they slap a wheel on and never check.
I know some here would say "why not remove the bolts?". Have you ever seen a car lose a wheel and the brake drum slide off? I have - NO BRAKES because the shoes push out against air. Pump and you pop the wheel cylinder pistons clear out of the cylinders.
But they are there only for assembly, right?
No - the TSM said "when done, replace the three brake drum retaining bolts". They used BOLTS because of the remote possibility when a wheel came off, the drum could also slip off, resulting in brake loss.
With disk brakes the rotor can't just slide off, with drum brakes they can.
I have the socket that removes the clips used by GM years ago to retain drums and such - and you could buy new clips - meaning the company believed they were important to prevent the drum from coming off when the wheel was lost and resulting in lost brakes.
I've seen cars pulled in where the wheel AND drum came off and the thing slid down the highway on the backing plate - the driver had no brakes.
To this day I put all bolts or clips back on after doing any were where a drum has to be removed. Disk brakes - you won't lose a rotor as long as that caliper stays put and good luck losing that! When I replace wheels - I drill the back side for the retaining bolts (or make recesses for clips) if going on a drum brake car.
Call me paranoid, but I've seen the results of wheels and drums coming off.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

We got a glims into one of Shadowspapa addictions

You should see my wife's quilting room and sewing area............. I guess we're just two addicts living here.

 

[SleepyJeep]

You should see my wife's quilting room and sewing area............. I guess we're just two addicts living here.

Hey! hobbies are good for your soul

 

[Sespe]

I have been running factory JK wheels on my JT for the last 4k miles, so far no problems but I put them on and torqued them myself.

Ditto here, 3.5K miles. Installed and torqued them myself. Really would love some verification that stock JK wheels are bad for the JT.

 

[12BNNT]

You should see my wife's quilting room and sewing area............. I guess we're just two addicts living here.

Don’t feel too bad about that addiction of yours. I share the same one. There has been many a times where buying a specialty tool (like said drum brake spring removers) only costed a few dollars more than renting it (if I ever need it again, I’ve got it) and then I inherited my dad’s tools (albeit not a lot there) and then being a former mechanic inherited my father-in-laws tools. (He was a auto mechanic and then an aeronautical engineer who built clocks, and restored old guns for a hobby). Needless to say I have two large rolling chest that are full. One in the garage and one in the barn for working on the tractor and such. On top of that I still have 4 or 5 large Rubbermaid totes in the basement full of extras and a wall rack of stuff I may never use but I still have because you never know when you might need it. Lol

 

[12BNNT]

As far as the OP... if the other 3 are okay, my bet would be the tech spun the nuts on as he rotated the tires and then when he went back to torque the down in the standard star pattern missed a tire so the wheel was tightened down enough to seem okay at first but not torqued properly and it worked it’s way loose over the course of xxxx miles.
Doing rotations at home it’s a good idea to have a nice torque wrench in the box (Lots more uses than just wheels) and double check yourself so you don’t make the same mistake I suspect happened to the OP.

 

[KVJ]

Troy,
After I met you last summer I found a set of Rubicon wheels for $400. So I drove to Massillon to get them about an hour and a half away. Got a set of BFG KO2s from the jeep dealer (best price around town) and went to have them put on. They would not put them on because the lugs on the JT where larger diameter than the wheels I bought. So I had them put the tires on the OME rims which still look better than the stock max tow tires.
I wouldn't know if there is a special nut that can convert to that wheel or not, but they refused. I hear the changed the stud size to 3/4" a few years ago.
I sold the wheels on craigslist for what I paid for them.
I'm glad your wife did't have to deal with it on here trip, however it is possible that if she would have noticed it and told you it could have prevented some damage.

 

[ZTMAN]

Since I used to have a JKU, I hung out on the Wrangler Forum. There were a lot of threads about the different size lugs between the JK and JL and swapping wheels between the two.

It appears the OP had different lugs installed that the installer picked up at the local auto parts store. Would be interesting to see what lugs they bought.

 

[KVJ]

Your right.

 

[Mark Doiron]

... I wouldn't know if there is a special nut that can convert to that wheel or not, but they refused. I hear the changed the stud size to 3/4" a few years ago. ....

That got my curiosity up enough to go out in 24 degree weather (13 degree wind chill) and pull lug nuts off my JK and JT. I had no idea they were different sizes. They are, but maybe not quite 3/4" on the JT (I know they're 1/2" on the JK because I had to replace one many years ago, and that's what I bought). In fact, at a casual glance you might think they are the same size. Regardless, on my JK I have a quarter million miles with aftermarket wheels that have a lug nut pattern and hole size that would easily fit on the JT (except they are 16" diameter wheels, not 17"). I've never had a problem with loose lug nuts. But, on the JK I did replace the lug nuts with ones for those wheels. Just as I did for the JT many years later.

EDIT: I do know that sometimes the big name tire stores are reluctant to do anything that isn't close to OEM spec. We see this occasionally when fitting larger tires on narrower rims (poor man's beadlocks). Often times, mom and pop tire shops will do the work. Maybe next time you can't get what you want, try that.

 

[Troybilt]

Well it looks like the dealership put the wrong size lug nuts on from the get go. The outside was to thick so it was almost imposable to get a socket between the lug and the wheels wall. My mechanic explained what I needed and didn't charge me a thing.

I took it back to the dealer and explained to them what had happened. The parts guy had no idea what lug nuts I was talking about and the service manager told me she could not look at it till Wednesday. I am amazed at how poor some business customer service is.

So today I took my boys car to town and picked up everything I needed to fix there mess up myself. The lug nuts where $50 and I bought a socket set, torque wrench and a breaker bar. Another $50. I was able to switch out the lugs and check for any damage in about an hour. Everything seams to be good now and I will retoique them again in a few days.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well it looks like the dealership put the wrong size lug nuts on from the get go. The outside was to thick so it was almost imposable to get a socket between the lug and the wheels wall. My mechanic explained what I needed and didn't charge me a thing.

I took it back to the dealer and explained to them what had happened. The parts guy had no idea what lug nuts I was talking about and the service manager told me she could not look at it till Wednesday. I am amazed at how poor some business customer service is.

So today I took my boys car to town and picked up everything I needed to fix there mess up myself. The lug nuts where $50 and I bought a socket set, torque wrench and a breaker bar. Another $50. I was able to switch out the lugs and check for any damage in about an hour. Everything seams to be good now and I will retoique them again in a few days.

the tools are a good investment. Seriously, if you were in Iowa, and your widow was having an auction of your mechanic tools, she'd get a decent price. I've seen used tools bring almost new prices. So - not only do you now have what you need to check something that doesn't hurt to check anyway, you have something of value - plus the ability to do it yourself, correctly. Win-win.

 

[sass JT]

Well op... at least you didn’t loose a tire... I have and it’s sucks.

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