Anti-Theft questions

[joeym7]

Everyone is entitled to opine on what they want or do not want. That's why vehicles still come with options. Just because some do not want something does not mean everyone thinks the same way.

Best part of the great USofA is everyone can think differently!

You got that right.

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[joeym7]

Intentionally deleted, many apologies.

 

[PlayfulBird]

Do they park these things in large faraday cages???

Signal jammer until they are in a clear spot, then disable the electronics and off to a container or the chop shop.
It takes a skilled chop shop very little time to dissemble and move parts.
Kinda like this

 

[Deleted member 28696]

The joy of getting my new Jeep is being hampered by my constant fear of it being stolen, I'm seeing ninjas in trees just waiting for my back to be turned?
Maybe not that bad but does anyone know how difficult these are to steal? I keep my fobs in a faraday box always and use a club also when I'm in the city. I live in the country on pretty secure property so I'm less worried about home. What are the best options?

The Tazer has new anti theft built in, you give it a key code to start the vehicle. If someone car jacks the vehicle & your fob is with you, it will know the fob is away & lock the brakes on the vehicle so it won’t move. It has to slow down below 5 mph to work. Give you time to get away & call police. It also turns on the light show so that no one hits your vehicle in the middle of the road & gets people’s attention.

 

[Deleted member 28696]

As I just replied on another post, my least favorite thing so far is the absolutely nuts hood situation. No lock of any kind and no alarm! Crazy. Does anyone know how hard it is to even set off the alarm? I've jumped on it, shook the hell out of it, I can't set it off.

You can enable the alarm via a Tazer if you open the hood without unlocking the vehicle the horn will sound. I installed a lasfit hoodlock which works with the key fob. It doesn’t require any modifications of the front grill or hood buckles & doesn’t affect the front trail camera in any way.

 

[billfraley]

I just installed the Lasfit Automatic Stealth Hood Lock to at least make things more difficult. It's an air lock that activates when locking and deactivates when unlocking. There is manual unlock capability and a cabled worst case scenario method.

 

[RK Racing]

Nuff said…………..

 

[Deleted member 28696]

I just installed the Lasfit Automatic Stealth Hood Lock to at least make things more difficult. It's an air lock that activates when locking and deactivates when unlocking. There is manual unlock capability and a cabled worst case scenario method.

Did the same a few weeks back???

 

[Deleted member 28696]

Since when do you need a Tazer to set the hood alarm?
My 2021 works without any tinkering.

Kevin

I had to activate mine with a Tazer as well 2021 JTR

 

[ParatusExpeditions]

There's some really sharp cookies in this place - I'm frankly surprised that no one has done a write-up!
The electrical knowledge in this place, the engineers, even automotive engineers here - many could blow away my best attempts at automotive wiring and systems, and this hasn't already been done?

Maybe some of us knows, but the issue is that unlike modern security in computers that are based on maths, security through obscurity is still very much a valid thing for cars. And the reason is the same as it is for computers. Generally in most application, the attacker having physical access to the machine is left out of the threat model. When thieves comes to get your truck, they clearly have access to the machine, and nothing can prevent a theft. Obscurity slows it enough that the risk ratio is too high for them to consider your truck as a good target. Nothing more. So yeah, stop posting about ways to get it “secured”, thieves have internet, they even have your dealer computer, means to reproduce keys, etc. Telling everyone your clever idea is shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Maybe some of us knows, but the issue is that unlike modern security in computers that are based on maths, security through obscurity is still very much a valid thing for cars. And the reason is the same as it is for computers. Generally in most application, the attacker having physical access to the machine is left out of the threat model. When thieves comes to get your truck, they clearly have access to the machine, and nothing can prevent a theft. Obscurity slows it enough that the risk ratio is too high for them to consider your truck as a good target. Nothing more. So yeah, stop posting about ways to get it “secured”, thieves have internet, they even have your dealer computer, means to reproduce keys, etc. Telling everyone your clever idea is shooting yourself in the foot.

WTF? You afraid, are you?
Anything you throw in the way slows them. They'd have to tear the truck apart to find if I did anything to it if they were unable to get it started or moving.

The majority of thefts are of opportunity - and the assumption they can hack i a fob, start it and drive off is the idea they are going by. Throw a log across the road, unless they have endless time and the view of their attempts is obscured, like happened here, they'll likely quit.

That's funny.

Besides, you have no idea how good I am at automotive wiring. I can make almost anything look factory and am good at hiding things.
I've fooled some car show judges and others.
I bet more than a few would have trouble taking my car.

 

[ParatusExpeditions]

I’m not sure why you’re taking this personally or if you can read at all buddy. I literally said that this was a valid way, and the actual only way. There are not computer that can save any car, for reasons I’ve explained briefly. And obscurity (yes that means hiding cables, removing stuff, switches, etc) is a valid mean of slowing them down etc. But sharing how clever one is and how they’ve disabled what is shooting oneself in the feet. Feels like I’ve just paraphrased my older post. No one is afraid here.

Cheers ?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There are SOOO many ways to prevent these from being started or driven away.
I'm surprised that several people have not come up with some specifics or actually done something about it and posted "done deal" (without giving what they did)

If someone wanted, they could make it so simple as to prevent a relay from being triggered and run the wires to the 12v outlet which would no longer be a 12v outlet but would require a piece be inserted into the 12v outlet to allow it to start or move.
Maybe a proximity switch somewhere - it's got to have a magnet applied in a certain place or way.
The hiding places in these for tiny switches or other devices are almost endless - many within reach of the driver's seat

There's a lot of hand-wringing and "what can we do" or "damn Jeep" and so on, but no one is thinking about the solutions.

But sharing how clever one is and how they’ve disabled what is shooting oneself in the feet.

I've tossed out simple ways people can start thinking about things. I've given no specifics - trying to get people to think instead of freaking out about how things are going to be stolen.

Jeep is in the top ten stolen in Iowa - but not the Jeeps you may think - Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are the targets.
Otherwise, it's Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Ford Fusion, and topping the list - Chevy trucks.

100 vehicles a month in Des Moines in 2021 - and guess what the main reasons are?
Idiots leaving cars unlocked, leaving keys in the vehicle, or leaving it running while running in to Starbucks for a coffee. The cops here say that the owners tell them "but I had the key fob with me! It can't be stolen" and that's a hoot. Leave it running, unlocked or locked either way, and believe it can't be stolen because the thieves don't have the fob in hand?
Seriously, most stolen vehicles at least in this state according to the police departments, Iowa Highway Patrol, county sheriff departments, whatever - it's owner carelessness or assuming "it can't be stolen if they don't have the key" or leaving the key in the vehicle.
What this is saying is that in the vast majority of cases - people were asking for it.

If you live in the Quad Cities - pay attention to this map of stolen vehicle locations -

 

[ParatusExpeditions]

I've tossed out simple ways people can start thinking about things. I've given no specifics - trying to get people to think instead of freaking out about how things are going to be stolen.

I agree with that, completely.

I'm frankly surprised that no one has done a write-up!
The electrical knowledge in this place, the engineers, even automotive engineers here - many could blow away my best attempts at automotive wiring and systems, and this hasn't already been done?

But not this, that’s it. You can’t say I didn’t do anything I’m just throwing out ideas and the contrary in two different messages were you’ve also asked for people that could do better than you to do write-ups. You understand what a write up is as much as anyone, it’s specific, it’s step by step. And it circles back to my original message intent, write ups are doing no good. Ravelco’s entire business is based on “you don’t really know what we’re installing, nor where”. From what I hear they take your care away for a few hours and return it back to you. That’s borderline paranoïa in order to save intellectual property and secrets so that it doesn’t fall into common knowledge as of what they’re doing on average for a particular model. Hence, I encourage people to think about their car and what can be done about it, take a 3 days subscription to the mopar tech interface, download some wiring diagram and do your thing, most of the time it’ll be sufficient and nobody needs to know. If one doesn’t want to put in the effort, can one really pretend to be concerned about it? Is it worth freaking out but not doing anything that actually works to mitigate the issue? Meh. And in that case one should trust their insurance and stop freaking out about it.

Finally, when I quote someone, it’s intended to add to the discussion on that specific point since they generally go all over the place, not a personal attack nor directly directed towards you, your beliefs, or your person. I care about a discussion that add value to people reading it, I don’t care for attempts to make it a personal.

Cheers,

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Is it worth freaking out but not doing anything that actually works to mitigate the issue? Meh.

Bingo! Nailed it.
And yet - what do we hear over and over?
--->
Jeep sucks, the hood doesn't lock, wah!
(so buy and install locks)
Jeep sucks, the gas cap doesn't lock, wah!
(so go buy and install a locking gas cap)
Jeep sucks, the key fob is always on, wah!
(jeep isn't the only one - and again - you have the solution already)
So buy locks, buy a gas cap, don't keep your freakin' fob hanging by the door, whatever.

Ravelco’s entire business is based on “you don’t really know what we’re installing, nor where”.

That scares me - I want to know every detail of anything that the factory didn't install. No one else will ever install anything that I don't have complete details about. You will give me details or you won't install it on MY vehicle. What if something goes wrong? What if the dealer has to do some work replacing harnesses, modules, whatever? Nope, no way.

I can discuss "possibilities" but with the tens of thousands of JTs out there, anyone that takes an idea and runs with it, the thief would need to know the vehicle and the details of what was done, etc. for them to have any advantage.
There are things that could be done that would take some disassembly to find and disable or bypass (such as removing fenders, removing PDC or more)
It would take a very long time to get to the mod, find out, figure it out, and get around it.
Where do they start?
Even if they do figure it out, you've bought time - and that's something that they shouldn't have if the owner is smart.

I'm not "too concerned" about mine being stolen, if I was, there are ways that it would take them a very long time to figure out............... are they going to strip the thing trying to find it?

I don't ask anyone to do a write-up - just THINK of all of the ways things can be disabled in ways that aren't easily detected.
Some are making this way too complicated.
On the other hand, it circles back to - if they want it, they'll get it.

I am not afraid of wiring...........

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