Are the batteries really isolated during ESS stops?

[Andy29847]

The IBS can't report on systems. What are you looking for specifically?

OK, this is my last reply on the IBS. This is fun for me, but I want to watch the football game. I'm looking for something that would justify the "Intelligent" label. Everything you list, even if I conceded they were useful measurements, are just that - MRASUREMENTS. No decisions are being made at the IBS.

Sponsored

 

[ShadowsPapa]

OK, this is my last reply on the IBS. This is fun for me, but I want to watch the football game. I'm looking for something that would justify the "Intelligent" label. Everything you list, even if I conceded they were useful measurements, are just that - MRASUREMENTS. No decisions are being made at the IBS.

Gosh, this same logic can be applied to many humans!

Semantics - it's the name that Bosch and others use for it and most manufacturers that use it label it as.

The IBS passes the information to the BCM, which shares what is necessary with the PDC.

I guess consider the IBS to be a professor or teacher. It has microprocessors used to calculate things, and passes the information along - the BCM and PDC make choices based on what the IBS teaches them about battery internal resistance (it must have some intelligence to calculate that based on other things) among other things - I gave a short list from one section of the BCM of my 2022.

 

[Andy29847]

Gosh, this same logic can be applied to many humans!

Semantics - it's the name that Bosch and others use for it and most manufacturers that use it label it as.

The IBS passes the information to the BCM, which shares what is necessary with the PDC.

I guess consider the IBS to be a professor or teacher. It has microprocessors used to calculate things, and passes the information along - the BCM and PDC make choices based on what the IBS teaches them about battery internal resistance (it must have some intelligence to calculate that based on other things) among other things - I gave a short list from one section of the BCM of my 2022.

The football game is over. Clemson lost (again). Woe is me. I'll bicker some more because I am upset about the game. I view the IBS as a book. There is info there, but no action. The action comes after something reads the book. I'd call it the "Mysterious Black Thingy That Helps My Jeep Make Charging Decisions" - MBTTHMJMCD.

About that thermistor..... if the factory literature is correct, and the IBS uses the temperature to calculate battery(s) state of charge, then why charge levels always high when it is cold? I could understand high charge on the first crank up on a cold morning. The starts after that, the under-hood temps should be very warm. Yet, charging levels continue to reflect atmospheric temperature.

 

[Wageslave]

Perhaps I can be a little help on the IBS sensor. Their purpose is to give the computer a little more in-depth picture of the battery so it can be managed with more accuracy than just pushing whatever voltage the alternator is regulated to to it constantly.

Most of them can sense battery voltage, current draw, and temperature. They will have the designed capacity of the OEM battery(s) plus expected charge and discharge profiles at various amperages and temperatures wrote into the sensor as a set of tables it works from. Think of it like a VE table inside a fuel injection computer. These tables are adaptable once they get some real world data, but if they see anything too out of whack, they will report a problem to the computer that will set a check engine light and/or go into a safe mode to keep from damaging the battery or the vehicles electrical system.

I'm guessing that this is why the charging system will force the alternator to constant 14v output when the batteries are not charging like the vehicle expects.

I don't make the Jeep sensors, so there could be some Stellantis-specific things going on, but this is how they work in other vehicles.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Perhaps I can be a little help on the IBS sensor. Their purpose is to give the computer a little more in-depth picture of the battery so it can be managed with more accuracy than just pushing whatever voltage the alternator is regulated to to it constantly.

Most of them can sense battery voltage, current draw, and temperature. They will have the designed capacity of the OEM battery(s) plus expected charge and discharge profiles at various amperages and temperatures wrote into the sensor as a set of tables it works from. Think of it like a VE table inside a fuel injection computer. These tables are adaptable once they get some real world data, but if they see anything too out of whack, they will report a problem to the computer that will set a check engine light and/or go into a safe mode to keep from damaging the battery or the vehicles electrical system.

I'm guessing that this is why the charging system will force the alternator to constant 14v output when the batteries are not charging like the vehicle expects.

I don't make the Jeep sensors, so there could be some Stellantis-specific things going on, but this is how they work in other vehicles.

Actually, nothing is written into the IBS. That info is in the bcm.

The football game is over. Clemson lost (again). Woe is me. I'll bicker some more because I am upset about the game. I view the IBS as a book. There is info there, but no action. The action comes after something reads the book. I'd call it the "Mysterious Black Thingy That Helps My Jeep Make Charging Decisions" - MBTTHMJMCD.

About that thermistor..... if the factory literature is correct, and the IBS uses the temperature to calculate battery(s) state of charge, then why charge levels always high when it is cold? I could understand high charge on the first crank up on a cold morning. The starts after that, the under-hood temps should be very warm. Yet, charging levels continue to reflect atmospheric temperature.

Cold batteries need more pressure to take a charge. It's a chemical to reaction. Slow when cold, easier when hot.
Voltage regulators have been this way since decades ago. I have the charts for several showing different regulated voltages at different temps.

 

[Wageslave]

Actually, nothing is written into the IBS. That info is in the bcm.

If there is nothing wrote into the memory of that sensor, than it is a stellantis-specific setup. Almost every other manufacturer has battery info wrote into the sensor. In BMW's, when the battery is changed the sensor data has to be cleared with a scanner or it will not charge the new battery correctly beacuse it is still working from the old battery's adaptive data.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If there is nothing wrote into the memory of that sensor, than it is a stellantis-specific setup. Almost every other manufacturer has battery info wrote into the sensor. In BMW's, when the battery is changed the sensor data has to be cleared with a scanner or it will not charge the new battery correctly beacuse it is still working from the old battery's adaptive data.

You simply unplug these, they reset, then relearn with a default of 80% SoC. I've posted how it works in other threads, the learning process, what it takes, etc.

 

[Andy29847]

Cold batteries need more pressure to take a charge. It's a chemical to reaction. Slow when cold, easier when hot.
Voltage regulators have been this way since decades ago. I have the charts for several showing different regulated voltages at different temps.

After a few minutes under the hood of a running Jeep, the battery is no longer cold. Yet the charging continues. Is it because the Intelligent battery sensor is NOT smart?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

After a few minutes under the hood of a running Jeep, the battery is no longer cold. Yet the charging continues. Is it because the Intelligent battery sensor is NOT smart?

It's smart enough to know the battery is still cold.

 

[J Sierra]

N1 and N2 voltage, cold start.

 

[Andy29847]

N1 and N2 voltage, cold start.

You are having too much fun. The total time shown here is 1/2 of a second. The starter is still cranking.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I think that IBS information is specific to the battery it's connected to. Here's an image of other information available from jscan https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/new-twist-on-aux-unavailable.158752/post-3270587

No, the voltage is the average of both batteries.

And -

The above also addresses the aux switches not available message where someone in another thread insisted it's the aux battery that causes that message. Bluntly, bull crap. It's the combined voltage of the batteries and you get down below ~12.4 volts you are approaching the 50% charge state, and that's were it will start to warn you about the aux switches and disables them.

And this is why I had to remove the IBS to reset it, charge each independently to make sure BOTH were properly charged through all 4(four) phases of AGM battery charging with a proper charger (not a tender or trickle charger on my 2020 and it relearned and was fine for months after.
Too many short trips -

There's more, of course, but unless we want to make this a college course on electronic engineering, hours of battery learning and more.................

 

[Flanders]

N1 and N2 voltage, cold start.

Thank you.

 

[Flanders]

@Andy29847 You've figured out that the I in IBS is BS. I have something else to tell you.

Smart chargers, aren't. The $80 toy with the slick marketing won't optimize your battery for peak performance and maximal longevity. It can't really detect and reverse damage to your battery. Patented pulsing at a precise resonance frequency won't turn hardened lead sulfate back to active material. The solid green light doesn't mean the battery is fully charged; it just means the toy has completed its one-size-fits-all cycle. The primary edict in designing these things is THOU SHALT NOT OVERCHARGE. That applies to the battery, not the customer.

Big charger will be coming after me now. I've left a letter with an attorney, anonymously, to be opened if I don't check in every week. They can't silence me.

 

[Andy29847]

@Andy29847 You've figured out that the I in IBS is BS. I have something else to tell you.

Smart chargers, aren't. The $80 toy with the slick marketing won't optimize your battery for peak performance and maximal longevity. It can't really detect and reverse damage to your battery. Patented pulsing at a precise resonance frequency won't turn hardened lead sulfate back to active material. The solid green light doesn't mean the battery is fully charged; it just means the toy has completed its one-size-fits-all cycle. The primary edict in designing these things is THOU SHALT NOT OVERCHARGE. That applies to the battery, not the customer.

Big charger will be coming after me now. I've left a letter with an attorney, anonymously, to be opened if I don't check in every week. They can't silence me.

Preach it Bro! FWIW, I think the stupidest thing about the design of the Jeep battery system is that owners feel (or have to) charge the batteries between drives. My shopping car, a Honda, sometimes sits for 2 months without being driven. It always cranks.

Sponsored