Auto stop disable

[ShadowsPapa]

n’t feel like 24-28 mpg in a Jt should be considered “gas (diesel) guzzling”. I do have my ESS “off” in both my JTRD and JLRD. I can’t wrap my mind around how the extra stop/start cycles can’t wear items quicker than not using it. Some here say it doesn’t due to improvements base on starter design etc. I may reactivate in wife’s JL and give a report on mpg increase then we will have an idea.

I'm a trained "mechanic", degree in automotive design and repair, decades of experience.
4.0 GPA in college, dean's list, multiple awards for my work.
I currently do restorations of alternators, STARTERS and other auto electric components (and am considered the go-to person for starters and alternators, etc. in certain circles and I get paid nicely for it).
I'm not just a person who bought a Jeep and jumped in with both feet, no automotive experience.

I've posted this countless times - this technology has been around for many years. Think of hybrids, Honda, Toyota, and others, have shut engines off at a stop for over a decade. They have no issues with starters. This has been around in certain Jeep models for a number of years - and yet you don't see dealers replacing starters by the gross. It ain't happening and it isn't going to.
These are not your father's starters. The commutators are of different design, the brushes are no longer the same carbon brush, they use bearings, not bronze bushings, there are thrust bearings, not fiber or leather washers, the drives are superior to those of even 20 years ago. If I could adapt one of these starters to my other cars, I would in a heart beat - and it would likely last over 300,000 miles on such a car.
The original starter on the engine that's now in my car went about 180,000 miles. It was mostly short drives and the prior owner abused the engine. I could tell by the rest of the engine when I salvaged it. The one and only issue with the starter - the CARBON brushes were worn down. That's it. 180,000 miles and it needed brushes. The modern starters don't use carbon brushes. And an ESS start doesn't spin the starter much at all, the engine might turn 1 rev compared to several on a cold start.
An ESS event start is not a fraction of the load and work of a cold start. And ESS start the PCM knows exactly where every piston is, every valve, and the last firing of every injector, the firing cycle of each injector last time it fired and more. And ESS start don't even "spin" the engine, it's not going perhaps one revolution and it's running. The engine is warm, the load is extremely light.
If you are so worried about the starter and other parts - consider this - those of you who drive your vehicle only 20-30 minutes a day and using it to commute are doing far more damage to that starter than ESS starts are. You are doing cold starts and not even warming the engine up to burn the water and acids out.
Owners are doing more damage than ESS is.
So if you shut off ESS but do short commutes, you are doing the damage that ESS wouldn't do.
A COLD start is a killer for many engine parts. An ESS start is nothing.
Even the bearings in these are a totally new design. A warm start sees the oil film still there. Pressure is actually held for a while, keeping things padded.

I don't get why people don't believe true automotive experts, those trained and experienced, the engineers that designed the starters, but they will believe someone on a ihateess.com site with zero experience in anything but gathering likes on the web who make all sorts of claims based on simply being irritated with it and not understanding it.
I guess people hate or mistrust what they don't understand. Me - I try to dig in and learn about it.

It ya hate it, disable it. But not because of fear of what's not understood.

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[ShadowsPapa]

There really are not any, since it varies for the particular driving situation of each vehicle. If you dig through the EPA documents, you can probably find the numbers they use. The current incarnation of ESS on these vehicles is being used to get overall Fleet MPG credits from the EPA so they can continue the production of these gas guzzling vehicles.

Edmunds and one other say 7-10% real world numbers.
Another independent tester (I think it was a magazine) came up with different numbers but they used vehicles like a Porsche and something else I can't recall. DUH, how about using what most people drive? Still, they did get some decent improvements in MPG with it engaged in some of their tests.
And again - it's not just CAFE, it's EPA emissions. The EPA determines mpg by sniffing the exhaust to see how much fuel was used.
And some places are making idling illegal for more than certain time frames.

In short, if you love your precious Jeeps and want to keep ICE around and want your Wrangler or Gladiator, accept that some things are necessary in this world.
The hate without basis other than "I don't like it" is amazing and interesting. Psychologically, it explains a few things in the world.

 

[Kevin_D]

Here we go, the past week’s average. I turned the ESS back on. I will fill the tank today and report back next Sunday.

That MPG Average isn’t the one to use: it’s a rolling average calculated over the previous 100 miles or so.
You’ll want to use the number from the Trip Odometer page.

Kevin

 

[Jteakus]

I reset both every time I fill the tank. Does that not give me the tank average?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That MPG Average isn’t the one to use: it’s a rolling average calculated over the previous 100 miles or so.
You’ll want to use the number from the Trip Odometer page.

Kevin

If I reset trip A at each tank, it matches to the exact number what the average on the screen shows when I scroll down to reset A.
If I don't reset trip B each time, say I leave it for 5 fills, it gives me the average over those 5 tanks.
I used it on our recent trip.
A always matched the cluster display as long as I reset trip A when I filled.
B worked out mathematically the same as my figures taking the total miles driven and the gallons put in.

So I use B to figure how many mpg we got over that trip and those xx number of tanks
And as long as I reset A when I fill the tank, it matches the cluster.

If it used a rolling average, it would be pretty worthless as an indicator of how well you did on that tank over-all.

I can't prove or disprove it either way, but if it's a rolling average, I find it interesting that it matches the trip A numbers.

Now I'm going to have to go start the truck and take a look LOL

 

[Jteakus]

My wife drives same route to and from work M-F. I know this experiment isn’t scientific it’s more to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Jteakus]

@ShadowsPapa
I value your opinion and respect the information you offer. I have copied some of your mods as well.

 

[Geoarch]

That is crap. The only thing replacing a battery by yourself would do is void the original battery warranty. You have a warranty with the new battery. You can replace batteries, filters, belts, any wear item and never harm the warranty (within reason of course)

It does seem that dealers are trying to save Stellantis money, for some odd reason, since they are reimbursed for time and materials. My dealer told me that installation of any Jeep Performance part, in my case the Mopar lift and potentially the Spicer 4.88 ring and pinion voids the warranty for suspension and everything related to the axle. I still find it ironic or hypocritical for Jeep to push their own performance parts that void the original warranty. This seems ripe for another lawsuit that Mopar would likely lose.

 

[Kevin_D]

If I reset trip A at each tank, it matches to the exact number what the average on the screen shows when I scroll down to reset A.
If I don't reset trip B each time, say I leave it for 5 fills, it gives me the average over those 5 tanks.
I used it on our recent trip.
A always matched the cluster display as long as I reset trip A when I filled.
B worked out mathematically the same as my figures taking the total miles driven and the gallons put in.

So I use B to figure how many mpg we got over that trip and those xx number of tanks
And as long as I reset A when I fill the tank, it matches the cluster.

If it used a rolling average, it would be pretty worthless as an indicator of how well you did on that tank over-all.

I can't prove or disprove it either way, but if it's a rolling average, I find it interesting that it matches the trip A numbers.

Now I'm going to have to go start the truck and take a look LOL

If I do a relatively long trip, say 1,000 miles, and towards the end of that trip I do a long (20 miles) 10mpg pull (like up a mountain pass,) the Average MPG on the Fuel Economy screen will start to drop, whereas the fuel economy on, say, Trip A, won't move, as I would expect for some (20) miles at 10mpg at the end of a 1,000-mile trip. I haven't done rigorous comparisons of Trip A, Trip B, and the Fuel Economy screen, but I have seen them be different on frequent occasions.
I wouldn't use the Fuel Economy screen, but use Trip A or Trip B for an extended comparison.
Just sayin'.

Kevin

 

[ZoMojave]

Just waiting for someone to once again offer the theory about if you push the ESS disable button every time it won't allow the aux battery to charge... hogwash!

 

[guntrust]

I hate this feature. I know that I can use the button on the dash but it resets every start. I am fairly certain that there is a way to permanently disable it. I guess my bigger question is, should I? I mean it annoys TF outta me, but maybe I should get used to it? To me it seems to be extra wear and tear on all the starter parts. Thoughts?

Easy fix. Replace AT with MT.

 

[Deleted member 28696]

I hit the button every time I start mine. Just habit now. I does stress the Secondary battery under the main battery. I know several people who had to get the Secondary battery replaced under warranty. One dealer in Houston told my friend , who got it replaces at the dealership,, that if he would have done it himself that it would void his warranty. That sounds like crap to me.

I believe I solved my ESS battery issues with a Genesis dual full-size battery system after having to replace the batteries twice, the second time I didn’t bother with warranty service. I just replaced the culprit. The ESS system now works without issues & the system doesn’t impact the Jeep Warranty since your only changing out the batteries & not how the Jeep system’s operate. If they still want to disable start / stop a Tazer mini will do it but the battery issue will remain. I got the AGM group 25 full throttle batteries from Genesis off-road.

 

[coalcracker]

Easy fix. Replace AT with MT.

The manual transmission has it as well. I test drove a 2021 Rubicon a couple weekends ago and at first I thought it stalled, but then realized it was the stop/start feature.

 

[Cracked_Windshield]

I hate this feature. I know that I can use the button on the dash but it resets every start. I am fairly certain that there is a way to permanently disable it. I guess my bigger question is, should I? I mean it annoys TF outta me, but maybe I should get used to it? To me it seems to be extra wear and tear on all the starter parts. Thoughts?

I can commiserate with you, but I’ve mastered how to deal with the pesky start/ stop button. The maneuver is best described as a form of gangbanger sign language. When you start the vehicle and move the shifter to drive, raise your thumb, and swing it to the annoying button in one smooth motion.

Problem solved, but the frustration of subsidizing the cafe standards for a guy in a Hellcat still lingers.

 

[GrubbyBaja]

The manual transmission has it as well.

But the ASS only works when you completely let out the clutch while in neutral. Makes for a nice option whether to use it or not...if I see I'm going to be at a light for more than 15 seconds or so, I'll let the ASS activate; otherwise I keep the clutch depressed.

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