Cam, rockers, and lash adjusters at 39k miles.

[willys 41]

I will find out this weekend about the tazer. I'm aware of the high temps with towing and I wish there were a remedy for it. I have never owned a vehicle that runs this hot.

I work on getting the temps down for 6 months with out success.
Nothing I did change the high temps including a pusher fan in front of the radiator.
I came across Jon at RPM extreme who was making fan controllers for Wrangler JK's and I ask if he could make one for a JL 3.6.
After about a month he had one programed for the JL and I believe I was the first one to try it.
I had a lot of question. The most important. Has he ever had one fail and he said no.
Game changer. I will never go back to stock cooling.

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[TCheek]

I work on getting the temps down for 6 months with out success.
Nothing I did change the high temps including a pusher fan in front of the radiator.
I came across Jon at RPM extreme who was making fan controllers for Wrangler JK's and I ask if he could make one for a JL 3.6.
After about a month he had one programed for the JL and I believe I was the first one to try it.
I had a lot of question. The most important. Has he ever had one fail and he said no.
Game changer. I will never go back to stock cooling.

I may have to look into that fix.

 

[NoDucksGiven]

Do you use the European 5/40 also? I am seeing engine temps that worry me in my gladiator and I am seriously looking for changes that can drop temps below 200 degrees.

Now that summer is upon us, I am seeing temps around 200F. I am using Royal Purple XPR 5W30 it is not api certified, will void your warranty if they find out, is a much better oil. Not because of the weight or the brand, because the zinc isn't limited by the epa.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Now that summer is upon us, I am seeing temps around 200F. I am using Royal Purple XPR 5W30 it is not api certified, will void your warranty if they find out, is a much better oil. Not because of the weight or the brand, because the zinc isn't limited by the epa.

What's wrong with 200?
The thermostat isn't even completely open until about 218-220. Most stats prior to this didn't fully open until about 224.
Zinc no longer matters - that's the thing still being clung to by the old timers. It's a thing of the past. Dead with the 1990s seeing better oil chemistry. The oils today are superior to those of the 1990s and before. The chemistry is different. Actually, it wasn't even the zinc, but people say zinc because it's easier than ZDDP.

Why is royal purple a better oil?

 

[NoDucksGiven]

What's wrong with 200?
The thermostat isn't even completely open until about 218-220. Most stats prior to this didn't fully open until about 224.
Zinc no longer matters - that's the thing still being clung to by the old timers. It's a thing of the past. Dead with the 1990s seeing better oil chemistry. The oils today are superior to those of the 1990s and before. The chemistry is different. Actually, it wasn't even the zinc, but people say zinc because it's easier than ZDDP.

Why is royal purple a better oil?

I never said 200 was bad. I had been running cooler in earlier posts and wanted people to know that with the warmer weather I am seeing an increase in temperature. 200 is probably about perfect seeing as the coolant runs about 190 on average and the oil is cooled with that.
I stated in my post that the brand has nothing to do with it being better, only the ZDDP which is limited to 800ppm in API certified oils do to the effect it has on catalysts. To increase oil film retention, I chose to go with an oil that has an increased amount of ZDDP. The race oils from any reputable brand are likely just as good (Project Farm on YouTube actually proved Ams oil is marginally better than RP). I chose to go purple.
As far as the ZDDP content is concerned it really is only better because the high lift rockers and cam lobes (whether engaged or not) slide against each other instead of roll.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

To increase oil film retention, I chose to go with an oil that has an increased amount of ZDDP. The race oils from any reputable brand are likely just as good (Project Farm on YouTube actually proved Ams oil is marginally better than RP).

ZDDP has nothing to do with oil film.
ZDDP over time forms a protective film on certain parts. Once that film is there, the layer STOPS building, so more isn't better. In fact, too much has been found to be detrimental to the structure of the metals in the engine.
I have notes from a university study done in conjunction with Pennzoil that shows that too much ZDDP starts to destroy the metal surfaces.


Amsoil in the viscosity we use is far better than RP - not even close. It's one of the top 3 or 4 oils for our engines - Pennzoil is right with it. Basically the same protection.
But amsoil 0w20 has some of the best wear protection of oils even close in viscosity to what Jeep calls for. RP isn't even in the top 10.

Higher viscosities in tight clearances can lead to hotter oil temperatures. It's not all about mpg as the conspiracy theorists may say - its also about oil temperatures in tight clearances, sheer leads to heat, higher viscosities sheer more, flow slower, so run hotter. Tests have shown that you may run higher oil temperatures with a jump in viscosity.

I run Mobil 1 in my SX4 with high-lift, fast ramp cam, flat tappet lifters, sliding on the cam lobes.
I run similar oil in my Javelin with a built up 360 putting out over 1 HP per cube, flat tappet cam, Comp xtreme series.
No added zinc, no high zinc oils.

Break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range. it wasn't about wear, it was about the chemical formulation to prevent oil oxidation.

Today, the formulations use different methods for protecting the oil from oxidation, and even from wear. ZDDP (the phosphate) isn't as important. The numbers can be lower and be fine.

 

[Stan H]

To further on what @ShadowsPapa said check this video out.

 

[Stan H]

ZDDP is good up to a certian amount.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

To further on what @ShadowsPapa said check this video out.

Yeah, I'm just some guy on a forum like everyone else. What do I know.
I've been talking this since before this video was even made.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

ZDDP is good up to a certian amount.

Yes, and if you go back 2 or 3 years, you'll see I've been saying that.
Go farther back on the AMC forums where these guys who just built an engine are griping about faulty cheap cams, bad cam metals and such destroyed their cam in hours - and I'm saying the same thing to them - STOP using high zinc oil, don't use any additives.
Some is good, you need a certain amount of protection, but today, even low zinc oils have other chemistry to help. Some of the lower zddp oils actually pass scuff wear tests just as well as others.

But no one will believe me - I'm just another person on a forum spouting things that people don't want to believe or hear, or that are the exact opposite of what non-engine builders claim.
Can't even recall the number of cams I've replaced over the years - now why did I never have a single failure?

 

[NoDucksGiven]

ZDDP is good up to a certian amount.

That was a good video. RP xpr is at about 1300ppm of zinc, not a giant amount and should be low enough to not cause other issues. There is definitely other things at play than just zinc, but if a modern oil has the chemistry figured out to include it, why not use it.
I'm just doing everything I can to not have to replace another cam in 30k miles. Different oil is easy. Different driving habits are easy.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So am I - that's why I'll only put Pennzoil or Amsoil or a couple of others in my Jeeps. Balance of chemistry, calcium/detergents and so on balanced with the ZDDP on a smooth burnished and polished cam and follower surface.

 

[Stan H]

So am I - that's why I'll only put Pennzoil or Amsoil or a couple of others in my Jeeps. Balance of chemistry, calcium/detergents and so on balanced with the ZDDP on a smooth burnished and polished cam and follower surface.

And in the same lane of thinking as @ShadowsPapa I have 92,000+ zero problems.. no cam replacements no nothing. What did I do to get it there.. simple ...
Amsoil 0w-20 signature series. There my Secret is out .

 

[ecidiego]

ThE oIl LooKS ReEAllY bLAck


I might have gone to jail had a service writer said that to me.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Can't wait for the results of the oil sample I sent in this time. 7,000 miles on it - mostly because I've been laid up, dealing with other stuff, radioactive cat and so on, otherwise I don't usually go that long.
Interested this time because of the length of time between, the fact it went through a whole winter with up and down up and down temperatures, and some heavy snow plowing.
Will be very interesting - well, at least to me!

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