Dealerships can be so sneaky

[ShadowsPapa]

some do, some are legally not allowed to request a non-refundable deposit (states vary).

My state we have to refund all deposits, but the method of refund is open to interpretation. So if a customer was reasonable but just had a problem, we'd give them their money back by check. If a customer was shady, they'd get it back in store credit.

as for "if this were true" it absolutely is. Certain builds are hard sellers. Generally anything manual transmission that's not a miata, mustang, camaro, or challenger is going to take some time to find the right customer.

If I were a dealer, I would never take an order for a snazzberry manual JT sport or willys sport without a method of keeping the deposit if the person who ordered backs away.

manual transmissions, rollie windows, and pinkish hues will not find a buyer easily. especially not when combined.

It's unfortunate that people don't understand what the whole point of a deposit is. It's earnest money - showing "I am sincere, I am earnest, I want to order and this shows I am serious and as proof I offer up some money". But people whine and groan and bitch and complain.
Ordering a car isn't window shopping, it isn't a game where you order and order until you win.
It's serious business and impacts several people in that dealership. You may think you are screwing no one but the sales person, but...........
IMO a deposit should be NO REFUND except in hardship cases.

In Iowa, as long as it is stated it is non-refundable or if it does NOT state it's refundable, a business can keep the deposit. Having been in business myself, and having sold homes myself, people just don't get it.
One house I sold myself - no realtor involved, I had the contract written very clearly - and yet some woman came in all gushing over the house, it's just what she wanted, she'd take it, she wrote out a check for a deposit. Then later changed her mind (about a week later as I recall) and demanded her money back. Nope. She took the contract to her attorney who wrote an opinion that she needed to read before signing and that she agreed it was non-refundable.
Her antics were costing us in time and money because we had a bid on another house.
IMO, dealerships should be allowed to do the same - you waste our time and play games, you cost us money and time and effort and our sales guy spends time with you instead of someone not playing games, you lose. (hardship cases - illness, family matters, whatever, give 'em the money back)

Anyway, MSRP is a sum total of the base price, all options AND destination charges. I see it as extremely clear, cut and dried. How can anyone look at a Jeep WINDOW STICKER and not see that it's part of MSRP? It nowhere says "MSRP" and then destination charges and then "total price" - it shows base, then prices of each option as line items and then destination charges as a line item and then MSRP.

Look at this - line items - destination charges IS A LINE ITEM just like an option, THEN the MSRP or total price (excluding taxes, license, etc.)

Read the danged window sticker - never assume, never go by anything else.
And note the asterisk.

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[DLAW]

I learned that there are basically two types of dealerships and how they make money. 1, which is most of them, is they just try to nickel and dime you to death to increase their profit on every sale. 2, is they play the big volume game. If a dealership is super high volume on their custom builds, they don't even bother negotiating. The just offer a great deal that is so good, people flock to them and the process is smooth. The deal is a cookie cutter. The emails are copied and pasted. It's the same deal over and over and over. You send them your specs, they send you a contract, you sign, they build, you pick it up. done. They make money because they sell so much more than my first example. I got 7% under invoice and that was what they offered EVERYONE with no headaches of negotiating anything.

Around Delaware and the "Greater Philadelphia Area", all the Jeep dealerships are my type 1 above. They either got mad at me or laughed at me when I suggested the notion that some dealerships are offering to build Gladiators for under invoice, even when I specified that it was going to be a 2 hour drive to get it. And trust me, I tried at least 10. Some acted like they didn't believe me. Some acted like I was getting scammed and I need to "watch out". Some acted like I was just wasting their time. One salesman that I sat down with in person, ready to sign, said to be me very sternly, "why pay invoice when you can pay less than invoice?". What he meant was that he wanted me to leave or either sign with him AT INVOICE pricing. So I got up and left. That was David Jeep on 202....don't go there.
So yeah, I simply ordered my custom build 2 hours away and took a little road trip when it was ready. All the paper work for custom builds are legit contracts. way less shady business the salesman can get away with. They draw up the numbers of every little detail and you sign it.

THE ONLY THING I got bait and switched on was that I was supposed to get "2% for financing through the dealership". My credit score is above 800 and so I knew I could get 3 years with zero interest. I go get the Jeep, sign all the papers with my salesman, it's good. I go back into another room with finance and then they drop the bomb that I can't get the 2% if I do the 3 year no interest. I was boiling. There it was!!! There always has to be SOMETHING they get on you. Just because there is a 0% interest rate, doesn't mean I'm not "financing". I'm still making a payment plan with them. So yeah, that was about $1,000 they got on me.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They either got mad at me or laughed at me when I suggested the notion that some dealerships are offering to build Gladiators for under invoice, even when I specified that it was going to be a 2 hour drive to get it. And trust me, I tried at least 10. Some acted like they didn't believe me.

That's almost how the dealer I bought from was acting. I told them I could get one a lot cheaper and after their bit with my trade I was looking around........... he seriously seemed to think I was lying or something as he didn't seem to believe I could possibly get one cheaper. I blacked out Spencer's name and showed them the email with the figures on it - same exact truck in every way - about 4 grand less. Both the sales guy and the manager picked it up and looked it over and then reluctantly agreed. It's a corporate store like almost all are in our area and the sister stores all do the same thing - MSRP, no negotiating on anything except the trade-in value. OTherwise you pay MSRP and that's it. I have gotten minor free stuff in the past like interior protection kits (the high-end mats for JEeps and such) but never anything worth over a few hundred bucks.
These corporate stores are all owned by an out of state company and all operate sales the same way when selling.

 

[BowlofSoup]

If people can't spot the difference between first quote and second quote, that's on them. They subtracted the destination fee online to make it look like a sale then added it back on... that's a fake sale.. and that's what I'm pointing out.

And for all you "feel bad for dealership people"... Can we stop acting like they don't try to screw the majority of their customers over?

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/...-up-fake-bronco-customers-and-its-had-enough/

They want the special orders.

I went to a dealership for a used escape for my wife, confirmed the price was 20k. Drove down and test drove. said I'll buy it. They said "great it's 22k". I said no, its 20k, they said "yeah that online price reflects 2k down". It didn't say that anywhere and I told him I called and confirmed price.. THEN the salesman said "okay can we meet at 21k?" They literally try to screw you lol. This should have been a walk in sale for the price listed and they still made it a shit show. This was a Dodge dealership by the way.

Any ways I'm done lol. I built the Nacho truck online and realized it's actually pricing higher than the window sticker. So I'm saving a good amount, and I'm gonna love the truck. I'm happy knowing I'm paying 3k less than anyone buying a truck in my state.

 

[sharpsicle]

A "destination charge" is a fee that the manufacturer charges to deliver a vehicle from the factory to the dealership, and that is passed on by the dealer to the consumer; it is not included in the MSRP of the vehicle.

https://help.edmunds.com/hc/en-us/articles/206102367-Are-destination-charges-negotiable-

One showing the vehicle price alone and the other with the destination fee added. In other cases, there's one price, with the destination fee summed into the MSRP. Approaches vary between manufacturers, but the destination fee must be included somewhere on the Monroney

https://www.motortrend.com/features/what-are-car-destination-delivery-charges-fees/

Destination fees must be itemized and clearly listed on the “Monroney” label, or window sticker of each new vehicle. The United States government requires it. That’s because destination fees get based on direct costs. These costs are above and beyond the overhead companies must incur in bringing a product to market. However, freight is not included in the MSRP, or manufacturer’s suggested retail price of the vehicle.

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/what-are-destination-charges/

Destination fees range from about $850 to $1,700. The charge depends on the car manufacturer and the vehicle’s make and model...The fee is not included in the MSRP, or the manufacturer’s suggested retail price.

https://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/new-car-delivery-or-destination-charges-explained-213280

I hope this clears up destination charges for everyone. Nothing shady about them being included. In fact, they're required to be disclosed but not required to be part of MSRP. If it's itemized individually at the time of sale, thats perfectly normal so long as you aren't being double-charged. Purchase price, final price, total price, etc. are not equal to MSRP. Just like paying shipping from Quadratec doesn't make the part you ordered any more or less valuable.

Destination charges: They're a thing, always there, and it should not be a surprise to see one.

 

[cotnballs2000]

This is not my first rodeo, MSRP never includes the deleivery fee (its a charge on the sticker from Jeep) and almost all dealers tack on a dealer handling fee of $300-800. Come on, you didn't ask the right questions because none of that is new. In your deal, all these items are listed. You should have a signed deal before you put money down.

 

[BowlofSoup]

If you don't look at the images I provided with said dealer quotes then you don't actually understand the issue and your being lazy and just saying "This guy didn't read the window sticker".

 

[BowlofSoup]

https://help.edmunds.com/hc/en-us/articles/206102367-Are-destination-charges-negotiable-


https://www.motortrend.com/features/what-are-car-destination-delivery-charges-fees/


https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/what-are-destination-charges/


https://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/new-car-delivery-or-destination-charges-explained-213280

I hope this clears up destination charges for everyone. Nothing shady about them being included. In fact, they're required to be disclosed but not required to be part of MSRP. If it's itemized individually at the time of sale, thats perfectly normal so long as you aren't being double-charged. They're a thing, always there, and it should not be a surprise to see one.

I WAS DOUBLE CHARGED. look at the images I posted

MSRP:$46,295 (THIS INCLUDES THE DESTINATION FEE)
Discounted Price (Before Rebates):$43,000
THEY THEN ADDED THE DESTINATION FEE

This was a fake discount

 

[BowlofSoup]

This is not my first rodeo, MSRP never includes the deleivery fee (its a charge on the sticker from Jeep) and almost all dealers tack on a dealer handling fee of $300-800. Come on, you didn't ask the right questions because none of that is new.

Window sticker includes destination charge. Window sticker is MSRP

Never once mentioned dealer fees as the issue

 

[sharpsicle]

If people can't spot the difference between first quote and second quote, that's on them. They subtracted the destination fee online to make it look like a sale then added it back on... that's a fake sale.. and that's what I'm pointing out.

I don't think you get it. Your two quotes are completely different types of transactions! Hell, one has a trade-in on it and the other doesn't. Taxes are way different because of that. There's a big difference in discount too. Forgot to mention that? If the destination charge was that "shady" to you and you couldn't convince the dealership to eat the fee, why didn't you walk away?

Two different transactions. Two different negotiations. Two different sets of line items. Not comparable. I'm sorry if you disagree, but they're not apples-to-apples.

 

[sharpsicle]

MSRP:$46,295 (THIS INCLUDES THE DESTINATION FEE)
Discounted Price (Before Rebates):$43,000
THEY THEN ADDED THE DESTINATION FEE

This was a fake discount

Where is your image showing the destination charge was included in the $46,295? Right now that's just a number you've thrown out at us with no description. There are plenty of situations as linked above where an online MSRP would NOT equal the total sticker price. I've just been asking that you show that.

 

[Rahkmalla]

And for all you "feel bad for dealership people"... Can we stop acting like they don't try to screw the majority of their customers over?

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/...-up-fake-bronco-customers-and-its-had-enough/

They want the special orders.

Just so we're in the clear here, prior to ford "discovering it's dealers were making up fake bronco orders" the name match policy was 80%. Not sure why a bunch of major new outlets picked up the 60% name match story like it was a punishment for dealers when in reality they lowered the percentage.

How can "journalists" get something so wrong? They don't care to attempt to be right. Clicks pay the bills and facts slow down the process.

 

[BowlofSoup]

Where is your image showing the destination charge was included in the $46,295? Right now that's just a number you've thrown out at us with no description. There are plenty of situations as linked above where an online MSRP would NOT equal the total sticker price.

 

[sharpsicle]

<image>

FINALLY!

Now take that in along with your purchase paperwork, show them and get your refund.

 

[BowlofSoup]

I don't think you get it. Your two quotes are completely different types of transactions! Hell, one has a trade-in on it and the other doesn't. Taxes are way different because of that. There's a big difference in discount too. Forgot to mention that? If the destination charge was that "shady" to you and you couldn't convince the dealership to eat the fee, why didn't you walk away?

Two different transactions. Two different negotiations. Two different sets of line items. Not comparable. I'm sorry if you disagree, but they're not apples-to-apples.

Why are you bringing up taxes and my trade? I used this to show that in one quote there's a destination charge seperate, and the previous one it's not there. Do you not see that?

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