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WXman

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First and foremost, congratulations. Are you planning to buy it after the lease?



As you know, there's no way to get around that on a modern diesel engine except through a tune that disables the EGR. The good news is that a tune will probably be available probably June.



I'm surprised you've driven it enough to see the needle move much. I get my DEF from Walmart for 7.88 per 2.5 gallon jug.
I've been through a lot of SUVs, trucks, and cars over the last 15 years. Too many. It ticks off my wife, and I'm starting to realize I need to stop doing it also. So, AS LONG AS the Gen 3 EcoDiesel is reliable and doesn't give me any trouble, I do plan to keep this truck long term.

As far as the DEF usage being alarming....that's the point. I've only got 225 miles on the truck and the needle is coming down quickly. There is NO WAY I will make it through an oil change cycle on a single tank of DEF. I've used a quarter tank already and my driving is very typical 50/50 split city/highway stuff. Ouch. Thankfully DEF is inexpensive, but still....

Is a Toyota Tacoma next? lol
:clap::rock: I see what you did there! Ha!

One thing you will NEVER see in my driveway ever again is another Toyota product.
 

biodiesel

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I've been through a lot of SUVs, trucks, and cars over the last 15 years. Too many. It ticks off my wife, and I'm starting to realize I need to stop doing it also. So, AS LONG AS the Gen 3 EcoDiesel is reliable and doesn't give me any trouble, I do plan to keep this truck long term.
I'm still a long way from retirement, but I'm strategically preparing for it. We are planning to keep every vehicle we buy from this point forward for 15+ years. Once you get outside of warranty on these new vehicles, ownership can be risky. But, it's a risk I'm ready to take. Once retiring, I hope to have a fleet of well maintained vehicles in the garage/shop that are paid off.

Having a small fleet of vehicles also means that there's a backup vehicle if one goes down for repair. having multiple vehicles also keeps a lot of miles from accumulating on any single vehicle.

As far as the DEF usage being alarming....that's the point. I've only got 225 miles on the truck and the needle is coming down quickly. There is NO WAY I will make it through an oil change cycle on a single tank of DEF. I've used a quarter tank already and my driving is very typical 50/50 split city/highway stuff. Ouch. Thankfully DEF is inexpensive, but still....
How big is the DEF tank? The tank on my 2015 is 8 gallons. My guess is that your truck is still new and using more DEF than normal, or, there is a problem. Usually a software fix will remedy heavy DEF consumption. For reference, the only time I see my DEF needle moving is when I'm towing our 7,000 lb travel trailer over a course of 1,000 miles. Even then, it may only use 2 gallons in 1,000 miles.
 

WXman

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How big is the DEF tank? The tank on my 2015 is 8 gallons. My guess is that your truck is still new and using more DEF than normal, or, there is a problem. Usually a software fix will remedy heavy DEF consumption. For reference, the only time I see my DEF needle moving is when I'm towing our 7,000 lb travel trailer over a course of 1,000 miles. Even then, it may only use 2 gallons in 1,000 miles.
I think the manual said the tank is 5.8 gallons on these models. I'm not sure what the size is on the JL Wrangler.
 
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We are planning to keep every vehicle we buy from this point forward for 15+ years. Once you get outside of warranty on these new vehicles, ownership can be risky...
I was thinking about this just this morning. I have a 2006 TJ 'Unlimited' Rubicon that I intend to keep forever - might have them bury me in it.
In 15 years, I wonder if a Gladiator will be worth as much as that TJ? Who wants a 15 year old computer?
When (electronic) systems eventually fail, cost to replace them will quickly surpass the value of the vehicle. I bet there will be businesses who specialize in stripping out all the electronics & making Jeeps more like what they should be building to start with -
 

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biodiesel

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I think the manual said the tank is 5.8 gallons on these models. I'm not sure what the size is on the JL Wrangler.
Oh, well, that would make a difference in draw-down. Going from 8 gallon to the 5.8 gallon tank is an adjustment. Does your truck have the optional 33 gallon fuel tank? I bet Ram had to make the DEF tank smaller to accommodate for the bigger fuel tank. The tank size in the 2014 - 2019 Ram EcoDiesel was 26 gallons. I would rather have a larger fuel tank than a larger DEF tank.
 

biodiesel

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I was thinking about this just this morning. I have a 2006 TJ 'Unlimited' Rubicon that I intend to keep forever - might have them bury me in it.
In 15 years, I wonder if a Gladiator will be worth as much as that TJ? Who wants a 15 year old computer?
When (electronic) systems eventually fail, cost to replace them will quickly surpass the value of the vehicle. I bet there will be businesses who specialize in stripping out all the electronics & making Jeeps more like what they should be building to start with -
It's a legitimate question. Ultimately, there are too many factors to know for sure. As you said, I'm hoping the aftermarket will keep these vehicles in good working order for years to come. We are greedy people in a good economy. We become more fiscally conservative in a slow or broken economy. In this current economy, nobody wants to drive a vehicle that is 6 years old, let alone 12 years old. With that said, it seems that utilitarian vehicles retain value much better than a car.
 

Hootbro

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I was thinking about this just this morning. I have a 2006 TJ 'Unlimited' Rubicon that I intend to keep forever - might have them bury me in it.
In 15 years, I wonder if a Gladiator will be worth as much as that TJ? Who wants a 15 year old computer?
When (electronic) systems eventually fail, cost to replace them will quickly surpass the value of the vehicle. I bet there will be businesses who specialize in stripping out all the electronics & making Jeeps more like what they should be building to start with -
It is a niche market, but there is currently repair companies supporting 30+ year old early computer ECM/PCM repairs of vehicles of that vintage. Given the commonality to the JL, both the JT and JL will be supported by the same types of companies for their electronics 20+ years down the road.
 

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I'm dying to get my hands on one. One question for me will be diesel fumes with the top down. Personally, I love the smell of oil burning in the morning, but don't want my kids barfing all over the new jeep or have to keep the top up. My only experience with diesel is my 12 valve Cummins so I have no idea what all the new emissions controls do to smell, etc.
If you keep the emissions in place fumes from the tailpipe won’t be an issue. Using my 08ram as an example...zero odor.
 

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The turbo lag is horrendous. Worst of nearly any turbo vehicle I've ever driven.

It feels like there is a massive amount of torque management incorporated in the tune. I hate this part. I paid for 480 lbs/ft and I want it ALL when I hit the pedal. It's no wonder the Silverado 1500 Duramax wipes the floor with the Ram EcoDiesel in drag races.

Driving feels good but there isn't the RUSH of torque like my old Jeep Liberty CRD had. That thing was extremely responsive and pushed you back into the seat if you dipped slowly into the throttle. No so on this EcoDiesel. It actually feels underpowered until you get to 50% throttle and beyond. That was a little surprising.

Overall, I like it so far. I think a quality engine tune would wake this engine up from the dead and make it a superstar. For $5k upcharge you shouldn't have to tune it, but such is life I guess.
Funny, because I stumbled upon this article in Diesel Power magazine from August of last year:

"One driveability peculiarity we did notice involved initial throttle application. If we were cruising along and wanted to overtake a slower vehicle, there was a slight but noticeable delay between applying the throttle and the truck accelerating. After prodding some engineers, we were informed that the behavior is part of the truck controlling the emissions output. If you lived with the truck every day, you'd likely eventually not notice it, but it does seem more prominent here than with Ford's 3.0L Power Stroke."

That's my experience exactly! The dead zone in the throttle response is scary at times. When I notice it most is while cruising or decelerating at around 40 MPH or so, and then I need to get back on the throttle. Typically the trans. will be in 4th or 5th gear at this point. Upon dipping back into the throttle, there is literally a 3-4 second delay between pressing the pedal and the truck actually accelerating.

The FCA tune is HORRIBLE. It ruins the driveability overall in this truck. I'm assuming the Wrangler and Gladiator will have the same issue. Most people will want a good aftermarket tune.
 

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RH 67

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By now you all probably know that I leased a Ram with the Gen 3 engine. Here's what I can tell you:

The intercooler hoses still get full of oil.

The EGR tube still gets coked up with soot rapidly.

DEF consumption seems to be alarming. I hope it slows down with time.

With 3.92 gears and 5,555 lbs. of curb weight I'm seeing 23.8 MPG so far in mixed city/highway driving. I'll be updating Fuelly with each fill up going forward.

It does hold 8th gear a LOT better than any gas engine including the Hemi E-Torque, but it will still downshift to 7th at times.

The turbo lag is horrendous. Worst of nearly any turbo vehicle I've ever driven.

It feels like there is a massive amount of torque management incorporated in the tune. I hate this part. I paid for 480 lbs/ft and I want it ALL when I hit the pedal. It's no wonder the Silverado 1500 Duramax wipes the floor with the Ram EcoDiesel in drag races.

On cold starts there's a lot of clatter and noise which I love. Cruising you can't hear it at all. You can hear the turbo whistle a little bit. I'm waiting for a good CAI.

Driving feels good but there isn't the RUSH of torque like my old Jeep Liberty CRD had. That thing was extremely responsive and pushed you back into the seat if you dipped slowly into the throttle. No so on this EcoDiesel. It actually feels underpowered until you get to 50% throttle and beyond. That was a little surprising.

Overall, I like it so far. I think a quality engine tune would wake this engine up from the dead and make it a superstar. For $5k upcharge you shouldn't have to tune it, but such is life I guess.
Local dealer has had a diesel JL for a month now, at first they were impressed now not so much. They mentioned about DEF usage being extreme and the lack of and sometimes the absence of torque.
 

WMWHV

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I am scheduled to go drive the diesel Wrangler tomorrow. If I don’t like it and end up getting the gasser Gladiator, I will be really torqued that I did not get the launch edition when I had the chance. With the economy going south, the silver lining of waiting may be a better deal.
 

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I am scheduled to go drive the diesel Wrangler tomorrow. If I don’t like it and end up getting the gasser Gladiator, I will be really torqued that I did not get the launch edition when I had the chance. With the economy going south, the silver lining of waiting may be a better deal.
I would be really surprised if you didn't like the EcoDiesel. Those who have driven it have spoken highly of it. I'm not saying the Pentastar isn't a great engine, but the EcoDiesel is a completely different animal. It really boils down to your driving characteristics and what you want from an engine. The Pentastar doesn't hold a candle to the EcoDiesel at low speeds or cruising down the highway.
 

RH 67

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I would be really surprised if you didn't like the EcoDiesel. Those who have driven it have spoken highly of it. I'm not saying the Pentastar isn't a great engine, but the EcoDiesel is a completely different animal. It really boils down to your driving characteristics and what you want from an engine. The Pentastar doesn't hold a candle to the EcoDiesel at low speeds or cruising down the highway.
During my test drive as WXman eluded too it seemed to take quite a bit of throttle to feel some grunt, it almost felt like it was starving for fuel till mid throttle. I asked the sales person what was going on and he said the techs could not find anything wrong. It drives a lot different then the 3.6, it feels like a 4cyl. at low RPM`s then a 6cyl. at higher RPM`s. It was way different then what i expected, being an experienced diesel guy this did not feel like a true diesel but i`m sure many will find it great.
 

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During my test drive as WXman eluded too it seemed to take quite a bit of throttle to feel some grunt, it almost felt like it was starving for fuel till mid throttle. I asked the sales person what was going on and he said the techs could not find anything wrong. It drives a lot different then the 3.6, it feels like a 4cyl. at low RPM`s then a 6cyl. at higher RPM`s. It was way different then what i expected, being an experienced diesel guy this did not feel like a true diesel but i`m sure many will find it great.
It's quite possible that the computer is still "learning" or the software needs an update, etc. Most people who bought a 2020 3rd gen EcoDiesel Ram talk about how responsive the truck is compared to the 2014 - 2019 2nd gen engine. WXman is the only person I've heard on the Ram forum talk about lag time, slow response time, or how slow the truck is at takeoff. Either people's opinions vary to a large degree or there are some early software issues. My truck doesn't come in until May, so I can't give a lot of personal feedback.

Most people I know who have driven the Wrangler EcoDiesel absolutely love it. TFL said the EcoDiesel held the gears better on the highway and the engine felt more responsive through the RPM range. They also did the towing test and said the EcoDiesel performed much better than the Pentastar.

The aftermarket tuners will be a game changer, so I'm optimistic about improving the driving characteristics. Honestly, I would be fine with a stock tune, but minimizing or disabling the EGR would be valuable.
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