duel stabilizer caused death wobble?

[Gren71]

Maybe you missed my earlier posts on this - this is from a designer/engineer type person -

A steering damper is not a fix, it's a band-aid used to mask issues with either worn components or poor design. Dampers did not start appearing on stock vehicles until the late 70s, mostly associated with the trend to larger (wider thus heavier) tires on older designs.
On a properly designed and well maintained system, a damper's purpose is to mitigate the effects of bump steer and the sudden encounter of unexpected objects, such as hitting a rock in a trail at 50 miles per hour.
On an improperly designed and/or poorly maintained system, a damper is used as a crutch to mask issues with suspension and tire errors.

I saw it brotha, just still baffled by how little the dual stabilizer did to mitigate the death wobble before and when it happened. Especially when the bump that set it off was so minimal when compared to other bumps i had already hit along the same route. I poorly worded my thought by using the word “solve”.

where im fortunate is that I identified an issue I didn’t know i had because it was masked by my other stabilizer. Then I was able to correct that issue thanks to yourself, and a couple other memebrs, giving info on resetting toe. And verify the correction by being able to travel the same route, at the same speed, and eliminate road conditions as a variable.

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[Mac]

Found this video helpful for showing where and how to adjust the tie bar.

 

[Gren71]

Found this video helpful for showing where and how to adjust the tie bar.

Yep! I watched that one as well, great video

 

[Bonanza]

Eddie and everyone on [Banned Site] are about as toxic as it gets for a Jeep community. I don't say hate often, but I truly HATE that forum and everyone who is connected to that place. If you've ever seen the overlandingmeme account on insta, it's made for those people. Yuck.

 

[Mac]

Eddie and everyone on [Banned Site] are about as toxic as it gets for a Jeep community. I don't say hate often, but I truly HATE that forum and everyone who is connected to that place. If you've ever seen the overlandingmeme account on insta, it's made for those people. Yuck.

I have no idea what you’re talking about, I have watched a few videos from way of life and they generally seem well done and full of useful information.

 

[Gren71]

I have no idea what you’re talking about, I have watched a few videos from way of life and they generally seem well done and full of useful information.

yeah I’m in the same boat as you. Maybe that user had a poor interaction himself on their website and it tainted his entire view of the group. But who knows.

 

[Levi.Butler]

Eddie and everyone on [Banned Site] are about as toxic as it gets for a Jeep community. I don't say hate often, but I truly HATE that forum and everyone who is connected to that place. If you've ever seen the overlandingmeme account on insta, it's made for those people. Yuck.

I have no idea what you’re talking about, I have watched a few videos from way of life and they generally seem well done and full of useful information.

yeah I’m in the same boat as you. Maybe that user had a poor interaction himself on their website and it tainted his entire view of the group. But who knows.

I don't understand the hate for the guys over there. When I had my JK I spent a ton of time on that forum. Those dudes wheel hard and are a major help to others on the trail.

I suspect, from @Bonanza 's location, that they've probably gotten their feelings hurt by what someone said on the internet.

People like to talk about how twitter/facebook/instagram are private companies so they can do whatever they want on their websites. That forum is exactly the same. If you don't like it, leave. Literally, the only thing I ever saw over there that was even slightly aggressive was when someone, especially a new person, didn't follow the rules of the forum that you agree to when you sign up. That's the rules of the game, folks! HAHA!

Anyway, back on topic. Make sure you keep an eye on things, every single time I have seen death wobble pop up, there has been something worn out or out of torque specs. A ball joint or a bushing or something.

 

[Gren71]

I don't understand the hate for the guys over there. When I had my JK I spent a ton of time on that forum. Those dudes wheel hard and are a major help to others on the trail.

I suspect, from @Bonanza 's location, that they've probably gotten their feelings hurt by what someone said on the internet.

People like to talk about how twitter/facebook/instagram are private companies so they can do whatever they want on their websites. That forum is exactly the same. If you don't like it, leave. Literally, the only thing I ever saw over there that was even slightly aggressive was when someone, especially a new person, didn't follow the rules of the forum that you agree to when you sign up. That's the rules of the game, folks! HAHA!

Anyway, back on topic. Make sure you keep an eye on things, every single time I have seen death wobble pop up, there has been something worn out or out of torque specs. A ball joint or a bushing or something.

Agreed and will do!

I intend to keep checking as i go to see what’s changing now that im aware of the start of a problem. Hopefully it was the toe, but I suspect track bar still. Ill be pulling it off at some point for a closer inspection when i have the time.

 

[DankjeeP]

Maybe you missed my earlier posts on this - this is from a designer/engineer type person -

A steering damper is not a fix, it's a band-aid used to mask issues with either worn components or poor design. Dampers did not start appearing on stock vehicles until the late 70s, mostly associated with the trend to larger (wider thus heavier) tires on older designs.
On a properly designed and well maintained system, a damper's purpose is to mitigate the effects of bump steer and the sudden encounter of unexpected objects, such as hitting a rock in a trail at 50 miles per hour.
On an improperly designed and/or poorly maintained system, a damper is used as a crutch to mask issues with suspension and tire errors.


More stuff from same article -

In the 1984 Jeep XJ, a Haltenberger linkage modified this arrangement somewhat. Now, it was a single rod from the pitman arm to the right hand knuckle with tie rod ends at both ends for the draglink; and a single rod from the left hand knuckle to the drag link with ball joints at both ends.

These parts are sized in compression strength and torsional strength for the original maximum size tires and no larger. In stock form, flexing out of plane for these pieces is minimized.

Once you change to a larger overall diameter tire, you do two things - both bad. You increase the rotating mass, increasing the gyroscopic effect of the tire on handling; and you change the theoretical length of the arm resisting the toe change from ground induced inputs.

In a properly designed XJ suspension, the motion of the draglink (of the Haltenberger type) and the panhard rod is supposed to be a parallelogram...but in stock form, it is not, so raising the vehicle even 1 inch worsens the "fight" between the track bar (panhard rod) and the draglink, causing the tires to steer instead of the driver.

Yes the old inverted Y they called it on the XJ. Never liked that design. A knuckle to knuckle solid tie rod worked better, because as you mentioned, the toe can change when the tie rod connects to the drag link. I had a violent DW issue with the stock design. Went to a solid tie rod and no more issue.

 

[Bonanza]

I don't understand the hate for the guys over there. When I had my JK I spent a ton of time on that forum. Those dudes wheel hard and are a major help to others on the trail.

I suspect, from @Bonanza 's location, that they've probably gotten their feelings hurt by what someone said on the internet.

People like to talk about how twitter/facebook/instagram are private companies so they can do whatever they want on their websites. That forum is exactly the same. If you don't like it, leave. Literally, the only thing I ever saw over there that was even slightly aggressive was when someone, especially a new person, didn't follow the rules of the forum that you agree to when you sign up. That's the rules of the game, folks! HAHA!

Anyway, back on topic. Make sure you keep an eye on things, every single time I have seen death wobble pop up, there has been something worn out or out of torque specs. A ball joint or a bushing or something.

Since you brought it up, that's precisely what those people do over there. If the topic isn't EVO or Nitto, the post is deleted, thread closed, and the user banned. Any topics of discussion on parts that aren't EVO or Nitto are shut down. Comparison to sites like this are night and day. Eddie has made a name for himself on Pirate/Irate/etc, and not for good reasons. The toxicity those members spew to anyone who dares mention a non-sponsor product is, in my opinion, one of the absolute worst parts of any 4x4 community.

Example-- once, before I knew what that forum truly was, I started a thread about a fundraiser for a land-use advocacy group. The thread was immediately closed, I was banned, and more than a few members went out of their way to try and sabotage the fundraiser.

I did the same thing on this forum, Irate4x4, Pirate4x4, JLforums, VWvortex, and a few others I think. I not only got help, but support and offers/advice to expand the audience. To date I've raised near $1000 in donations for the land-use group. "Toxic" is thrown around a lot, and luckily I don't see it often. People on the internet are just that, but the wayolife treatment truly was an eye opening experience. It's shocking how the hive-mind works when negative cruelty is the first response. Absolutely disgusting group of people there.

 

[Gizmo]

I have found that components with a large amount of Clevite Bushings can seem tight when doing a Dry Steering test but still not be able to stop DW once initiated . Things like Track bars , lower control arms I try to replace those components with parts that use Johnny Joints , before DW ever starts. I try to learn from experience and change some parts early in my mod process . I have only had DW once and that was on a 99 Ram 1500 . Since then I have a pretty good idea what to replace to prevent DW . What ever you do don't drive it any more than you have being each time you have a DW event you are quickly wearing/loosening good parts and will end up never knowing what component initially started the problem. I hardly ever run a Steering Stabilizer on any of my Jeeps once the OE one is done . I don't like things that cover up a worn component that may be needing attention . Currie's steering components in my case have never had to be replaced again . No, I am not pushing Currie but I know what has worked great for me and John stands behind his parts.

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