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Gren71
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not entirely sure but I can ballpark 30,000 miles or so. The track bar seems to me to be solid, but I cant really tell. I had my wife cycle the steering wheel today and it didnt look like it moved in any odd way or excessive way. I guess id have to pull it off to really see.
Wheelin98TJ
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Steering with motor off and tires on the ground? That’ll expose any issues with the track bar.
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Gren71
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Checked the track bar and its solid, no movement at all.
I reinstalled the fox ifp steering stabilizer today. I dont like to change too many things at one time, it makes it hard to diagnose problems. So im starting with the adjusted toe to see if that helps my wobble/wonder.
next are a set of geometry correction brackets for the control arms. The set I ordered allows me to add a bit of caster. Which will be the third step for me in trying to figure out the wobbles.
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RiverMtnBeach
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Sorry, part of the contract! LOL
Bonanza
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Steering stabilizer may be too stiff. Have you tried driving without the stabilizer installed?
Tires balanced? Road force balanced? What PSI were they balanced at? Cold weather means lower PSI, which can put a tire out of balance just enough to begin the oscillation. Cold weather also makes the tires rubber stiffer, and can aggravate DW. Does the wobble only trigger in the morning v. afternoon? Do you have an organic shimmy
I've owned a 2 door JK, a 4 door JK, and now this JT. 35s, 35s, 37s respectively. Death wobble on all of them. Most of the time it was ball joints. On one of the JKs two of my four wheels were actually out of round, which caused the wobble. Tire balance issues on all of them caused wobbling. Ball joints bad on all of them, including Synergy "HD" BJs which went bad after 5k miles. I've had a problem with my track bar being a bit loose once, but that was my fault. I tightened the TB when it was on the lift and not on the ground, which bound the bushing and caused wobble.
Like other users said, there's all kinds of things that might cause DW, and diagnosing it is very frustrating.
Tires balanced? Road force balanced? What PSI were they balanced at? Cold weather means lower PSI, which can put a tire out of balance just enough to begin the oscillation. Cold weather also makes the tires rubber stiffer, and can aggravate DW. Does the wobble only trigger in the morning v. afternoon? Do you have an organic shimmy
I've owned a 2 door JK, a 4 door JK, and now this JT. 35s, 35s, 37s respectively. Death wobble on all of them. Most of the time it was ball joints. On one of the JKs two of my four wheels were actually out of round, which caused the wobble. Tire balance issues on all of them caused wobbling. Ball joints bad on all of them, including Synergy "HD" BJs which went bad after 5k miles. I've had a problem with my track bar being a bit loose once, but that was my fault. I tightened the TB when it was on the lift and not on the ground, which bound the bushing and caused wobble.
Like other users said, there's all kinds of things that might cause DW, and diagnosing it is very frustrating.
Radio Guy
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The death wobble is a type of oscillation with many variables. Large tires coupled with light duty steering components that are not rigid enough coupled with loose/worn parts, etc. The oscillation needs something to start it up like hitting a bump, then the wheels and steering components make the equivalent of an electronic circuit that oscillates with the oscillating frequency determined by the stiffness of some parts and looseness of others.
A steering dampener simply changes the circuit by adding resistance to the motion of a few parts. In most cases its enough resistance to keep the oscillation from starting or continuing but in your case it may have tuned the circuit so it favors a frequency that allows the wobble to happen and you just experienced the result.
I suspect some stuff has worn or become loose in your front end and with the older worn out steering stabilizer it will wobble at a very low frequency that can't be sustained or maybe not start at all. The newer tighter steering dampener has tuned the circuit to a higher frequency which allows the wobble to start and continue but its not the actual problem, its just helping the other worn or loose parts achieve a resonant frequency that you don't' want.
I'm sure you will find the culprit that requires tightening or replacing then everything will be back to normal and the dual steering dampener will perform better than the older one.
A steering dampener simply changes the circuit by adding resistance to the motion of a few parts. In most cases its enough resistance to keep the oscillation from starting or continuing but in your case it may have tuned the circuit so it favors a frequency that allows the wobble to happen and you just experienced the result.
I suspect some stuff has worn or become loose in your front end and with the older worn out steering stabilizer it will wobble at a very low frequency that can't be sustained or maybe not start at all. The newer tighter steering dampener has tuned the circuit to a higher frequency which allows the wobble to start and continue but its not the actual problem, its just helping the other worn or loose parts achieve a resonant frequency that you don't' want.
I'm sure you will find the culprit that requires tightening or replacing then everything will be back to normal and the dual steering dampener will perform better than the older one.
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Gren71
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After putting the fox stabilizer back on, and resetting the toe, the wobble is gone and so i my wonder.
when i measured my toe the first time it was equal front and rear. Which, if I understand toe correctly, would mean that my tires would’ve had a outward toe while driving which I think is what was causing them to wander like they were. Now that I reset it to within 1/16 it drives straight as an arrow and I barely have to touch the wheel with the fox stabilizer installed.
just for good measure I do have geometry correction brackets coming as well as the falcon adjustable stabilizer.
when i measured my toe the first time it was equal front and rear. Which, if I understand toe correctly, would mean that my tires would’ve had a outward toe while driving which I think is what was causing them to wander like they were. Now that I reset it to within 1/16 it drives straight as an arrow and I barely have to touch the wheel with the fox stabilizer installed.
just for good measure I do have geometry correction brackets coming as well as the falcon adjustable stabilizer.
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Mac
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Was the toe originally set to both front wheels straight and you changed it to have the the front of the tires 1/16" closer together than the rear of the front tires?
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Gren71
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Yep. The front and rear measurements were the same. So I adjusted it to “toe in” and kep the front and rear within 1/16 of each other.
really made a notable difference…enough that im annoyed ive never taken the time to learn this, let alone try it, before. Fantastic tool for the mental tool box for next time a wobble or tracking issues comes up.
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Gren71
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I picked the point on my tire for my measurements by measuring from the ground to the center of my axle and then putting a piece of tape in the same spot on both front tires. Pretty much mirroring the picture that Papa put up for us.
I did my initial measurements with the wheels on the ground
Then put the front axle on stands and repeated the measurement. (They were the same)
then made my adjustments with the front axle suspended.
after getting it set to where I wanted it. I locked it all in and did a test drive with some aggressive turns. Once i got home I rechecked and my measurements were about the same. They were slightly different, but still within spec. (1/8th-1/16th)
i had my wife help me which was very nice to have her hold the end of the tape measurer. Also having my kids sidewalk chalk handy worked out!
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Maybe you missed my earlier posts on this - this is from a designer/engineer type person -
A steering damper is not a fix, it's a band-aid used to mask issues with either worn components or poor design. Dampers did not start appearing on stock vehicles until the late 70s, mostly associated with the trend to larger (wider thus heavier) tires on older designs.
On a properly designed and well maintained system, a damper's purpose is to mitigate the effects of bump steer and the sudden encounter of unexpected objects, such as hitting a rock in a trail at 50 miles per hour.
On an improperly designed and/or poorly maintained system, a damper is used as a crutch to mask issues with suspension and tire errors.
More stuff from same article -
In the 1984 Jeep XJ, a Haltenberger linkage modified this arrangement somewhat. Now, it was a single rod from the pitman arm to the right hand knuckle with tie rod ends at both ends for the draglink; and a single rod from the left hand knuckle to the drag link with ball joints at both ends.
These parts are sized in compression strength and torsional strength for the original maximum size tires and no larger. In stock form, flexing out of plane for these pieces is minimized.
Once you change to a larger overall diameter tire, you do two things - both bad. You increase the rotating mass, increasing the gyroscopic effect of the tire on handling; and you change the theoretical length of the arm resisting the toe change from ground induced inputs.
In a properly designed XJ suspension, the motion of the draglink (of the Haltenberger type) and the panhard rod is supposed to be a parallelogram...but in stock form, it is not, so raising the vehicle even 1 inch worsens the "fight" between the track bar (panhard rod) and the draglink, causing the tires to steer instead of the driver.
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