Ecodiesel Delete tunes

[Warrantw5]

Thank you sir!

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[JoeBlow]

Yesterday, I installed a Stage 1 tune with a DEF delete option into my Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel via a PowerGate 4. Oh, got it from EOC. Easy peasy with zero H/W changes. Here are some questions:

1) DEF fluid % level still appears as option on dash. Ignore it? Keep filling with fluid? Distilled water? Forever? Let run dry?

2) Is the transmission tune worth the $ ?

 

[GoatPowder]

Yesterday, I installed a Stage 1 tune with a DEF delete option into my Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel via a PowerGate 4. Oh, got it from EOC. Easy peasy with zero H/W changes. Here are some questions:

1) DEF fluid % level still appears as option on dash. Ignore it? Keep filling with fluid? Distilled water? Forever? Let run dry?

2) Is the transmission tune worth the $ ?

1) Best practice is pull off all the components that DEF was in (tank, filler, lines, injector) and flush everything with water... Then do it 20 more times and there's a chance it's reusable if needed... In all honesty, you'll likely never save the feed line.

Also, interesting. Does it still show your level? Usually when SCR is 0'd out it perpetually reads zero percent. If it still works, sounds like you can have a built in meth tank with an accurate gauge.

2) Do you like the way it shifts? Most tunes just hang the gears longer and hold over-drive so they don't do the "7-8 hunt" at highway speed. If you still have DOC/DPF it'll Regen more often from the additional smoke at low boost, straight-piped: do you mind some smoke up a grade?

 

[JoeBlow]

1a) Not going to remove/change any H/W. So, DEF fluid. Keep filling with fluid? Distilled water? Forever? Let run dry?

1b) DEF indicator shows about 50%, no exact #s. Will keep an eye on it.

2) Huh. I like your thinking. Why change if I like it? Since I've only put 25 miles on it after the flash, I'll post status after 200

I just joined this forum only hours ago. Thanks for your quick response!

 

[GoatPowder]

1a) Not going to remove/change any H/W. So, DEF fluid. Keep filling with fluid? Distilled water? Forever? Let run dry?

1b) DEF indicator shows about 50%, no exact #s. Will keep an eye on it.

2) Huh. I like your thinking. Why change if I like it? Since I've only put 25 miles on it after the flash, I'll post status after 200

I just joined this forum only hours ago. Thanks for your quick response!

50% may just be it's default, if it's not still injecting (and don't see why it would be if the flash was successful) it's better to get that out of there before it becomes a big ball of crystals.

I guess it's possible the mil is just disabled and it'll keep trying until it runs out (I'm not familiar with EOCs strategy); in that case fill it with water a few cycles and you may actually save your feed line.

If it sits at 50 forever... Pull the feed line and stick the garden hose in it for a few hours. Unless of course you have no intention of saving anything, then it won't hurt anything to corrode itself under there.

 

[JoeBlow]

Sounds reasonable, will do. Thanks!

 

[Mike-len]

I would recommend at least doing a Stage 1. Deleting the EGR will immensely help your engine life. You can just clone your ECU and get a Stage 1 tune from EOC on it. Then you can just pop in your factory ECU whenever there's a warranty issue.

Then full delete after warranty. Just my two cents!

Would your DPF fill up faster if the EGR is turned off?

 

[DylanM]

Would your DPF fill up faster if the EGR is turned off?

EGR lowers combustion chamber temperatures which has the result of increasing soot production while decreasing NOx, so turning off EGR will cause the DPF to fill up slower but also increase DEF consumption to take care of the increased NOx production.

 

[Rusty PW]

Have a question for those who have a tune. Does the tune change the gas pedal feel, or do you still need something like a Banks Pedal Monster?

 

[Wat Dog]

Have a question for those who have a tune. Does the tune change the gas pedal feel, or do you still need something like a Banks Pedal Monster?

I don’t feel the need for a pedal commander. However, I have never used one either. I have the trans tune with 50hp ECM tune and love the acceleration and don’t feel any crazy lag

 

[Mike-len]

Have a question for those who have a tune. Does the tune change the gas pedal feel, or do you still need something like a Banks Pedal Monster?

So is it recommended to get the tube that shuts down the EGR like the EOC tune or get the GDE tune which as I understand doesn’t shut down the EGR entirely?

EGR lowers combustion chamber temperatures which has the result of increasing soot production while decreasing NOx, so turning off EGR will cause the DPF to fill up slower but also increase DEF consumption to take care of the increased NOx production.

so is it recommended to get the tune that shuts down the egr like the EOC tune or get the GDE tune that doesn’t shut down the EGR completely?

 

[GoatPowder]

So is it recommended to get the tube that shuts down the EGR like the EOC tune or get the GDE tune which as I understand doesn’t shut down the EGR entirely?

so is it recommended to get the tune that shuts down the egr like the EOC tune or get the GDE tune that doesn’t shut down the EGR completely?

For longevity sake: the less soot shot back into the intake the better. Unfortunately the CCV also feeds directly into the intake (pre turbo) and mixes this with oil mist creating a hardened carbon... Honestly if these engines didn't utilize swirl valves in the intake it really wouldn't be a big deal to clean every 50k or so (it's standard maintenance on most full-size diesel engines) but once they gum up it's an annoying job to replace the intake manifold.

GDE managed to keep the NOx in legal limits while using less EGR, so theoretically should create less problems but there is still soot entering the intake. I have no experience with them but they are the only legal option.

Any non-compliant tune will disable EGR flow entirely, so while the aforementioned oil mist is still there, it doesn't hurt anything or create any need for additional maintenance. Though should be noted some will require you to pull the butterfly out of the throttle (it's two torx screws but could be a factor when you need to revert if you lose them).

If your looking to get any warranty work done either will require you to reinstall an ECM with a factory tune and reinstall your aftertreatment if you decide to go full delete pipe. But real question is if you'll have any warranty issues if you "solve" the main factors to the issue with these engines.

I'm currently at ~70k and have had zero issues but it's also been lacking the components that cause issues since 8k. Only you can decide if the reward is worth the risk.

Edit: missed what I think is your main concern. Without EGR the combustion will be hotter and more complete (but increase NOx), so less soot produced and less to plug the DOC/DPF if left operational.

 

[Mike-len]

For longevity sake: the less soot shot back into the intake the better. Unfortunately the CCV also feeds directly into the intake (pre turbo) and mixes this with oil mist creating a hardened carbon... Honestly if these engines didn't utilize swirl valves in the intake it really wouldn't be a big deal to clean every 50k or so (it's standard maintenance on most full-size diesel engines) but once they gum up it's an annoying job to replace the intake manifold.

GDE managed to keep the NOx in legal limits while using less EGR, so theoretically should create less problems but there is still soot entering the intake. I have no experience with them but they are the only legal option.

Any non-compliant tune will disable EGR flow entirely, so while the aforementioned oil mist is still there, it doesn't hurt anything or create any need for additional maintenance. Though should be noted some will require you to pull the butterfly out of the throttle (it's two torx screws but could be a factor when you need to revert if you lose them).

If your looking to get any warranty work done either will require you to reinstall an ECM with a factory tune and reinstall your aftertreatment if you decide to go full delete pipe. But real question is if you'll have any warranty issues if you "solve" the main factors to the issue with these engines.

I'm currently at ~70k and have had zero issues but it's also been lacking the components that cause issues since 8k. Only you can decide if the reward is worth the risk.

Edit: missed what I think is your main concern. Without EGR the combustion will be hotter and more complete (but increase NOx), so less soot produced and less to plug the DOC/DPF if left operational.

What I’ve been told from others who have done full deletes is that the only reason to do a full delete is if the EGR fails or starts leaking and to shed some weight. . I’ve been told that shutting down EGR and Def with a tune would be sufficient. Does this sound accurate?

 

[GoatPowder]

What I’ve been told from others who have done full deletes is that the only reason to do a full delete is if the EGR fails or starts leaking and to shed some weight. . I’ve been told that shutting down EGR and Def with a tune would be sufficient. Does this sound accurate?

There are some minor gains to be had: reduction of heat from exhaust into the cooling system (actually a negative in the winter), ease of access to components, decreased heat trapping, and quicker spool of the turbo. But honestly, nothing you'll generally notice in a daily driver, especially one under warranty.

If you want to shut off just the EGR--and given your recent experience seems reasonable--leave everything in place so reverting is only a matter of swapping out the ECM.

My only suggestion going that route would be to request they leave the urea system active but disable the MIL flags/inducement. There's little chance the system will be functional if left dormant/empty for over a year. Mine has been stored, but I'm aware I'll need a new injector and pressure line if it ever gets reinstalled.

If they can't or won't: get a clone before shipping off for tuning and start filling the DEF tank with distilled water. It will derate, but hopefully will have cycled out all the urea before it just becomes a paperweight for a while.

 

[Mike-len]

There are some minor gains to be had: reduction of heat from exhaust into the cooling system (actually a negative in the winter), ease of access to components, decreased heat trapping, and quicker spool of the turbo. But honestly, nothing you'll generally notice in a daily driver, especially one under warranty.

If you want to shut off just the EGR--and given your recent experience seems reasonable--leave everything in place so reverting is only a matter of swapping out the ECM.

My only suggestion going that route would be to request they leave the urea system active but disable the MIL flags/inducement. There's little chance the system will be functional if left dormant/empty for over a year. Mine has been stored, but I'm aware I'll need a new injector and pressure line if it ever gets reinstalled.

If they can't or won't: get a clone before shipping off for tuning and start filling the DEF tank with distilled water. It will derate, but hopefully will have cycled out all the urea before it just becomes a paperweight for a while.

Thanks for the information!

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