Edelbrock E Force coming soon.

CMac

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@TrailRax I am curious about the HP gain made at the CRANK...to compare apples to apples, in a conversation with others, their HP numbers usually represent what’s made at the crank.

Some SWAG/reverse extrapolation looks to be about 360 HP or so...but it’s been a week and I’ve been drinking since 10 am.

Do you have that E Force CRANK HP number by chance?



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TrailRax

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@TrailRax I am curious about the HP gain made at the CRANK...to compare apples to apples, in a conversation with others, their HP numbers usually represent what’s made at the crank.

Some SWAG/reverse extrapolation looks to be about 360 HP or so...but it’s been a week and I’ve been drinking since 10 am.

Do you have that E Force CRANK HP number by chance?

Hey! So Edelbrock told us it is best for real-world results and power vs exaggerating a number that no one sees to the wheels ever (CRANK power). But yes I can still answer that. So Edelbrock saw a 37% overall increase in power output with their SC. This means if you add 37% to stock crank power (285 HP) we are looking at 390 HP to the CRANK. (285x1.37=390) This is with about 7-8 lbs of boost which is actually very moderate. The supercharger is set to last with this low amount of boost. Still feels very very powerful in the truck with that much boost.

Edelbrock also told us that they have seen as much as 46% additional power (416 CRANK HP) with the same E force kit on JL and JLU's
 

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@TrailRax - How would this perform with towing? I would also like to know if Edelbrock has done any type of reliability testing and has thoughts on long-term durability. While the Gladiator does "Ok" towing, it did struggle on hills in Wyoming, Montana, Utah, etc. The trailer is very light, 2800 dry / 3200 loaded, but still had to drop to 3rd gear at 4500rpm at 45MPH for the hills. Also, my average towing is between 6.6-10mpg with this light of a trailer at 60-65mph.

Thanks!
 

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@TrailRax - How would this perform with towing? I would also like to know if Edelbrock has done any type of reliability testing and has thoughts on long-term durability. While the Gladiator does "Ok" towing, it did struggle on hills in Wyoming, Montana, Utah, etc. The trailer is very light, 2800 dry / 3200 loaded, but still had to drop to 3rd gear at 4500rpm at 45MPH for the hills. Also, my average towing is between 6.6-10mpg with this light of a trailer at 60-65mph.

Thanks!
So Edelbrock used our Jeep Gladiator to test towing numbers and it seems that the power add-on is awesome. They tested the towing of a 7,000lb trailer behind the truck. During August they took it through death valley, CA where they tested high heat and heavy load environments. The supercharger did not overheat. It stayed at a comfortable temperature.

It towed great but the limiting factor on these trucks are the frame and what the frame can tow. the powertrain does really well.
 

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Hey! So Edelbrock told us it is best for real-world results and power vs exaggerating a number that no one sees to the wheels ever (CRANK power). But yes I can still answer that. So Edelbrock saw a 37% overall increase in power output with their SC. This means if you add 37% to stock crank power (285 HP) we are looking at 390 HP to the CRANK. (285x1.37=390) This is with about 7-8 lbs of boost which is actually very moderate. The supercharger is set to last with this low amount of boost. Still feels very very powerful in the truck with that much boost.

Edelbrock also told us that they have seen as much as 46% additional power (416 CRANK HP) with the same E force kit on JL and JLU's
Their website also shows with a stock Rubicon, it got 331 rwhp
 

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@TrailRax - How would this perform with towing? I would also like to know if Edelbrock has done any type of reliability testing and has thoughts on long-term durability. While the Gladiator does "Ok" towing, it did struggle on hills in Wyoming, Montana, Utah, etc. The trailer is very light, 2800 dry / 3200 loaded, but still had to drop to 3rd gear at 4500rpm at 45MPH for the hills. Also, my average towing is between 6.6-10mpg with this light of a trailer at 60-65mph.

Thanks!

Hey! we also got this quote from them directly.

"A few more specifics on tow testing with your JT:



While towing a 7450lb box trailer, in high ambient temperatures of 105-110°F, 0-65 MPH accelerations went from 31.9 seconds stock to 25.4 seconds with the supercharger at the base of Baker grade (Baker BLVD on-ramp). A reduction of 6.5 seconds, or 20% faster acceleration time when towing the maximum rated load.



FYI: Baker grade is used by most OEMs as a severe towing condition area. http://wikimapia.org/24673889/Baker-Grade"

Keep in mind we had the MAX TOW package Jeep Gladiator sport S.
 

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Hey! we also got this quote from them directly.

"A few more specifics on tow testing with your JT:



While towing a 7450lb box trailer, in high ambient temperatures of 105-110°F, 0-65 MPH accelerations went from 31.9 seconds stock to 25.4 seconds with the supercharger at the base of Baker grade (Baker BLVD on-ramp). A reduction of 6.5 seconds, or 20% faster acceleration time when towing the maximum rated load.



FYI: Baker grade is used by most OEMs as a severe towing condition area. http://wikimapia.org/24673889/Baker-Grade"

Keep in mind we had the MAX TOW package Jeep Gladiator sport S.
Thank you for the reply, I was looking for details. Not looking for 0-60 time differences, looking for the difference in gears (stock was in 3rd or 4th while climbing, with supercharger... ). Ease of towing at 60-65 (which gear does it hold), mileage while towing (average across several hundred miles) and terrain, etc.

I have a Rubicon which has 7000lbs towing capacity. I tow a trailer that is less than half my tow capacity ~3100-3200lbs. I averaged 10.26 across 5000 miles of towing in two weeks from Ohio to South Dakota, Wyoming, Utah and back. While going across South Dakota I was only able to average 8-9 MPG while going 60MPH. The truck stayed in 5th and 6th most of the time with an occasional drop to 4th. This was not climbing any hills, just going east to west on I90. In the Black Hills and in Yellowstone, the truck would need to drop to 4th regularly and sometimes to 3rd to climb at 45MPH.

Thanks
 

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Thank you for the reply, I was looking for details. Not looking for 0-60 time differences, looking for the difference in gears (stock was in 3rd or 4th while climbing, with supercharger... ). Ease of towing at 60-65 (which gear does it hold), mileage while towing (average across several hundred miles) and terrain, etc.

I have a Rubicon which has 7000lbs towing capacity. I tow a trailer that is less than half my tow capacity ~3100-3200lbs. I averaged 10.26 across 5000 miles of towing in two weeks from Ohio to South Dakota, Wyoming, Utah and back. While going across South Dakota I was only able to average 8-9 MPG while going 60MPH. The truck stayed in 5th and 6th most of the time with an occasional drop to 4th. This was not climbing any hills, just going east to west on I90. In the Black Hills and in Yellowstone, the truck would need to drop to 4th regularly and sometimes to 3rd to climb at 45MPH.

Thanks

Here is another response from an Edelbrock representative.

"We focused on a “worst case” towing scenario since our time was limited with your(trailrax's) JT. We wanted to ensure the power train would handle the supercharger addition without major issues. The added TQ did allow the ZF8 to use higher gears compared to stock. As for towing MPG, there are a lot of variables to weigh, but more power generally requires more air flow/fuel."

From our experiences with a stock truck. We saw a loss in about 2 MPG than before a SC. This may be because the driver has a bit of a lead foot when given tons of power. LOL During the drive from Southern California to Salt Lake City in the stock truck plus the SC we experienced 18-20 MPG on the highway still which is really nice. Overall there will be a loss in some MPG depending on how you drive with a SC. But like what Edelbrock said... more power generally requires more airflow/fuel.
 

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DaddyG

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So just to stir the pot here.

Engines are essentially air pumps and at 100% volumetric efficiency they are able ingest, combust and exhaust a given volume of atmosphere equal to the swept volume of the pistons plus the combustion chamber volume. This should be reflected in manifold pressure as small rise above ambient during those brief moments the valves are closed.

So far so good.

Superchargers and turbochargers work to increase the air volume flowing into the engine and so long as the various other parts of the engine have been enlarged to promote this flow things should continue as normal. However what is boost pressure? I argue that boost pressure is a reflection of resistance to flow and high boost pressure itself is not a representation of useful increased flow and thus power output.

Big boy industrial air compressors are not much more that an electric motor turning a supercharger and while it is possible to see 200psi or beyond it’s only because all the consumers are closed and not flowing. The same situation exists with an engine where I would prefer to to see manifold pressure decrease as air volume throughput increases.

The direction here is that boost pressure is and of itself not an indicator of actual developed power output, throwing more air at a stock 3.6L is not going to make a lot more power without revised ignition timing, more fuel and in light of the high static compression, revised combustion chambers. But if I had the choice of more air volume or more air pressure I would choose volume because depending on cam lobe overlap you can end up blowing mixture out the exhaust valve.

From all indications edelbrock seems to know what they are doing and what I’ve read about their 3.6 kit it works well and I would prefer to spend some more money with them based on overall competency.
Following this theory, I'm wondering if a good "port/polish" on the 3.6 heads would give some nice gains ? Racers have been getting big HP gains from p/p jobs for years.....obviously, that wouldn't be the only thing you'd need to alter, but I'm wondering if anyone has tried it yet ?
 

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FCA's normal Pentastar 3.6 inserted in a RAM 1500 (or any other Dodge, for that matter)pumps out 305 HP....why is Jeep getting 20 HP less ?. Should be the same exact motor, no ??
I realize that 20 HP is not a gigantic increase, (approximately 7.5%) BUT, i'd take it !
Engine tune could be a probability to take advantage of different shift points for the transmission in this vehicle specific application. I doubt there'd be enough internal changes to the engine to drop it 20 hp, but I"m sure someone else will chime in with more info .
 

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FCA's normal Pentastar 3.6 inserted in a RAM 1500 (or any other Dodge, for that matter)pumps out 305 HP....why is Jeep getting 20 HP less ?. Should be the same exact motor, no ??
I realize that 20 HP is not a gigantic increase, (approximately 7.5%) BUT, i'd take it !
Me too!
It’s probably some software difference
 

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FCA's normal Pentastar 3.6 inserted in a RAM 1500 (or any other Dodge, for that matter)pumps out 305 HP....why is Jeep getting 20 HP less ?. Should be the same exact motor, no ??
I realize that 20 HP is not a gigantic increase, (approximately 7.5%) BUT, i'd take it !

This I’ve never understood, they should offer the same hp in the JLs and JTs
 

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Following this theory, I'm wondering if a good "port/polish" on the 3.6 heads would give some nice gains ? Racers have been getting big HP gains from p/p jobs for years.....obviously, that wouldn't be the only thing you'd need to alter, but I'm wondering if anyone has tried it yet ?
In theory... yes. But the reality is these engines are pushed fairly far along the track of ultimate power as it is. In the "old days" castings were small and rough and port passages were good enough. The technology of the time, wet intake & down draft carburetors meant that swirl and turbulence of the charge air was paramount, port velocity and pressure differentials drove the system. With high pressure fuel injection and dry manifolds the manufacturers are freed from games while also being helped massively by the increases in manufacturing capability, 3d modelings, vastly improved casting, computer guided tooling, FEA flow analysis and iteration; It kinda comes down to the fact that so much of this is already done now. How much smoother can you make it? How occluded are the runners really? If I can now make the "perfect" intake in glass smooth plastic how much better can I do?

The gains at this point on a naturally aspirated engine are predominately going to be changes to small systems: a change to tune parameters, swapping sensors to finer resolution, relatively minor delivery rate changes to injectors etc. Gone are the days of "trick" parts in the usual sense. Theoretically you could have the heads with integrated exhaust manifolds extrusion honed to open them up "more" but it's not like a set of hedmans on an old SBC. Ignition systems are all computer controlled so not much there either.

The only way to make "more" is to boost VE and overall flow
 
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