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EV - not ready for the masses?

FLGladiator

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If you enjoy driving or cars at all you should be categorically opposed to autonomous driving

the only way it really works is to ban human drivers
I love driving, especially fun cars and will always have one if possible. I am just not in denial; I know what's coming. Autonomous has been in the works for a long time. I am opposed to alot of things but when you know there is no stopping this beast, you prep and make the best of it.
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jeepers29

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We are thinking about getting an EV, but it would be strictly for around town, commuting. There is no way I am sitting at a charge station waiting to charge when I could be making good time on the highway.
 

Orange01z28

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I love driving, especially fun cars and will always have one if possible. I am just not in denial; I know what's coming. Autonomous has been in the works for a long time. I am opposed to alot of things but when you know there is no stopping this beast, you prep and make the best of it.
What says there's no stopping this?
 

FLGladiator

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What says there's no stopping this?
Just my opinion. Looking back none of this agenda has been stopped. From NAFTA, world trade, manufacturing from the US, transferring coal mines to Colombia, mass immigration, globalism, rise of China, surveillance drones everywhere, the climate green agenda, the closure of millions of small businesses with lockdowns and I can go on and on. None of which has been good for the west. Why would suddenly autonomous cars be stopped?
 

CFLgladiator

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That's right, because the government can run and regulate a power company so much better than a private entity. :headbang:
Well actually Texas has shown us all just how bad it can be when left to private business. California did too during its deregulation, funny enough.
 

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texanjeeper

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Well actually Texas has shown us all just how bad it can be when left to private business. California did too during its deregulation, funny enough.
NOBODY is ready for full-on EV vehicles and charging them all. The grid isn't prepared for that, no matter what tripe you've heard from liberal politicians.
 

CFLgladiator

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NOBODY is ready for full-on EV vehicles and charging them all. The grid isn't prepared for that, no matter what tripe you've heard from liberal politicians.
I don't listen to any politician, and I thought you'd realize I was not blaming either side since I brought up both Texas and California.
But I do know system loads and realize that we could easily adjust to the new demand especially considering it would be during off peak times.
 

Hootbro

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Well actually Texas has shown us all just how bad it can be when left to private business. California did too during its deregulation, funny enough.
That is a red herring. Texas power generation problems has more to do with the feds regulating coal plants out of existence and the scramble to pick up the demand with wind.

Also, Texas power grid is basically a stand alone and not interconnected with the rest of the country. They lack the ability to borrow and share with neighboring grids like the rest of the country does with its neighboring states and regions.

If the Feds stayed out of Texas energy, they would still be fine with a private business model.
 

CFLgladiator

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That is a red herring. Texas power generation problems has more to do with the feds regulating coal plants out of existence and the scramble to pick up the demand with wind.

Also, Texas power grid is basically a stand alone and not interconnected with the rest of the country. They lack the ability to borrow and share with neighboring grids like the rest of the country does with its neighboring states and regions.

If the Feds stayed out of Texas energy, they would still be fine with a private business model.
No Texas has the capacity and doesn't need to just use wind to pick up slack. And the reason Texas isn't connected is because they didn't want the regulations imposed for stability to be able to connect to other utilities and swore up and down they could provide power without neighboring states. Also they signed in legislation to increase energy costs with demand and people went along with it and ignored the fine print until the prices skyrocketed.

By the way, some of those federal regulations include having the necessary peak generating capacity for those rare hot and cold days that goes unused for 330 days of the year. The regulations are bad for the bottom line but good for the consumer. And don't tell me that there is any company out there that gives up profit willingly just for the sake of the customer.

I prefer small government but when it comes to utilities you better have some oversight. Hell rural America wouldn't even have power if it wasn't for federal regulations that mandated providing it. Do you think companies like building and maintaining miles of line for a relatively few customers with low usage.
 

Rusty PW

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99.9% of the people here don't have a clue about power generation and transmission lines. I retired as a senior control room operator from a power plant. I was in direct contact with the PJM grid operations on a daily basis. I had the responsible for buying between $30 to $40 million dollars of natural gas a day.

The country barely has enough generation and transmission lines to handle the demand now. If 1/8 of the cars right now switched to being EV's over night. The price per MW would sky rocket. By 2030, when no new ICE cars will be sold. We don't have the interstructure to support that many EV's. And if you think electric prices are high now. Just wait!

Green energy is not reliable. Never will be. If the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing. No power. Solar panels lose efficiency when there is dirt, dust, leaves or bird shit on the panels. You could lose half the panel to a couple leaves. Wind turbines operate within a narrow range of wind speeds. 7 mph to start generating. And top at around 50 mph. The sweet spot is between 9 to 30 mph.

Electricity is made on demand. You can't store. There is nothing big enough to handle millions of MW's needed. Nuke plants generate around 2,000+ MW's, they are base loaded. Large coal plants can generate 2,000+ MW's too and most of them are base loaded. Natural gas power plants range from about 600 MW's to 1,200+ MW's. They are the ones that can adjust their output quicker than the nuke and coal plants. They can ramp up and down output as needed to balance the load on the grid. The smaller ones are used as peakers at times.

Bottom line. We're in trouble and too stupid to know any better. The Green New Deal ain't going to help us. It will just dig us a deeper hole. If you want clean energy. Nuke is the only way. BUT, the cost of permits is over $10 billion+ dollars, over a decade to get. Construction is another $50 billion+ dollars, and decades to build.

For now. We need a balance grid of nuke, coal, natural gas, and renewable energy. But with the nuke and coal plants retiring. Ain't going to happen.
 

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ZoMojave

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NOBODY is ready for full-on EV vehicles and charging them all. The grid isn't prepared for that,
That and that alone will put the brakes on EV's.

Once the general public really knows the truth about the energy and resources it takes to produce EV's (let alone the massive pollution EV's generate long term) they will not like what they hear. The internal combustion engine isn't going anywhere for a long time. The naysayers have yet to learn this.

The Contradictions of Battery Operated Vehicles | Graham Conway | TEDxSanAntonio - YouTube
 
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coalcracker

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A few "fun" points:

Don't like EVs? Cool. Don't buy one. You have a very long time to keep buying new ICE-powered trucks and SUVs. But please do not spread misinformation, lies and conspiracy theories surrounding EVs and EV technology. That too is, "No bueno!". If you hear or read something about EV technology, do some investigating from multiple sources to see if the information is true, exaggerated or outright false
Not really, depending on where you live. Arenā€™t there various states, like California, Washington, and Massachusetts, who have banned the sale of new ICE vehicles and registration of new ICE vehicles by 2030-2035? So, in 10-15 years in some places, it will be difficult to avoid them If you want something brand new.

I think this is one of the reasons why I resent the fact that some are trying to force EVs on everyone, even though I think there is a ton of potential. Theyā€™re (more or less) going to be forced on us by eliminating all of the other options, unless some alternative becomes more mainstream.

I would feel differently if an EV offered me something BETTER than what I have now. Like for example, how about a range that well exceeds what an ICE vehicle can do on one tank of gas? Or how about some killer towing capacity that exceeds the ability of an ICE vehicle? Itā€™s like, aside from ā€œhey it doesnā€™t use gas, but itā€™s a PITA to chargeā€ give me SOMETHING to look forward to.

Iā€™m sure at some point EVs will get there, but until then, Iā€™m not interested. And then, once they get to a point where they pique my interest, Iā€™d have to consider price. For example, today, the only one Iā€™d be even remotely interested in is the Rivian R1S, and to get one that is reasonably equipped, the cost is $95-$100K. Thatā€˜s ā€¦ the cost of a house in some parts of the country.

Not trying to be rude or argumentative, as Iā€™m not an EV ā€œhaterā€œ but right now itā€™s unrealistic to assume that everyone can just run out and buy one tomorrow, to save the planet.
 

Klutch

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Not really, depending on where you live. Arenā€™t there various states, like California, Washington, and Massachusetts, who have banned the sale of new ICE vehicles and registration of new ICE vehicles by 2030-2035? So, in 10-15 years in some places, it will be difficult to avoid them If you want something brand new.

I think this is one of the reasons why I resent the fact that some are trying to force EVs on everyone, even though I think there is a ton of potential. Theyā€™re (more or less) going to be forced on us by eliminating all of the other options, unless some alternative becomes more mainstream.

I would feel differently if an EV offered me something BETTER than what I have now. Like for example, how about a range that well exceeds what an ICE vehicle can do on one tank of gas? Or how about some killer towing capacity that exceeds the ability of an ICE vehicle? Itā€™s like, aside from ā€œhey it doesnā€™t use gas, but itā€™s a PITA to chargeā€ give me SOMETHING to look forward to.

Iā€™m sure at some point EVs will get there, but until then, Iā€™m not interested. And then, once they get to a point where they pique my interest, Iā€™d have to consider price. For example, today, the only one Iā€™d be even remotely interested in is the Rivian R1S, and to get one that is reasonably equipped, the cost is $95-$100K. Thatā€˜s ā€¦ the cost of a house in some parts of the country.

Not trying to be rude or argumentative, as Iā€™m not an EV ā€œhaterā€œ but right now itā€™s unrealistic to assume that everyone can just run out and buy one tomorrow, to save the planet.
Multiple states are working to prohibit the sale of new, ICE powered vehicles. I can't figure out if that includes SUVs and pickup trucks. I think this is also a big, "No bueno!" as I prefer carrot over stick to bring about change. I think it's very likely those objectives will be postponed and scaled back since the availability of EVs will still be limited, the power grid will still not be ready for big boost of EVs charging and people will rebel at being forced to buy a vehicle they can't drive cross country.

Solid state battery technology has great potential, but who knows when that technology will actually be available to the consumer.
 

Mojave2021

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IMHO I believe where weā€™re at currently is an EV is a great option for a 2nd car where one has home access to charge it. Until we have charging stations available like gas stations are today I still prefer to have a road-trip ICE vehicle available.

We have a base Tesla model 3 that can accommodate 95% of our driving needs. We bought it back when the pricing was under $40k. Itā€™s a lot of car for that price. We have only had 1 issue in the 2 years weā€™ve owned it (had to replace the accessory battery). Itā€™s faster, more reliable, requires basically zero maintenance and is just as luxurious as a BMW 335I I had previously that cost substantially more.

Like everything else Iā€™d recommend test driving an EV for yourself before jumping to conclusions. Thereā€™s a ton of misinformation out there.
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