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PyrPatriot

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What is an American vehicle? US HQ? Assembled in US? Designed in the US? High domestic content? By any of the above metrics a Jeep is no more American than Honda.
Is Honda designing vehicles state side? cool!

I would define an American company as all of the above PLUS historically a company started and maintaining operations in America. I wish we could have a company where all the profits go to an American company and not a foreign one
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jimbom

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And what are "profits?" What the CEO makes? What the stockholders make, which could be you or me, or could be a foreign-held investment company or fund? It's all mud. I've stopped giving it any thought because I'd have to spend days unraveling a money trail.
Good points -- it's all clear as mud to me. I invested in FCA(U) on the New York Stock Exchange, so I receive a share of profits, but I admit I am completely ignorant as to how their profits are distributed worldwide.

Edit- Side note: although I receive dividends, they have not offset the loss in value of my stock. I invested because I think they have a unique, quality product. The short-term decline of its value hadn't worried me ... until the recent Bronco announcement.
 

DreamedofaJeepSomeday

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I wasn't talking just about cars, so I don't think it's out of date. But to your point, the competition from Japanese makes is exactly what brought U.S. cars up to today's standards, IMO.
Agreed about cars, that was what I was saying. Detroit did indeed respond to the competition (although it sure took a while), which has been good for consumers and workers in the industry.
 

RatZer0

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As an FCA err Stellaris err whatever the hell we are now, employee we're not completely thrilled either. Just know that regardless of what we're called, it's still North American people building those cars.
 

SwampNut

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I'm invested in FCA indirectly via a foreign fund. I'm so confused. Do I want tea, or coffee? Should I have a baguette or bacon for breakfast tomorrow?
 

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mr_bots

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Is Honda designing vehicles state side? cool!
Pretty much every major automaker has large engineering facilities in the US where they design some of their cars, usually their mid-size and larger SUVs and trucks.

Buy what you want, I do. I'm just trying to get people thinking. The American vs import isn't as black and white as it was in the 70s. Is buying a Honda Passport built in Ohio worse for the US economy than a Chevy Blazer built in Mexico? By almost every metric a Honda Pilot is more American than a Grand Cherokee other than which has a badge that was owned by a US company 20+ years ago. Personally I'd rather support the thousands of middle-income jobs that a factory supports than where the corporate HQ is. Losing FCA in the US would be bad but so would losing Nissan or Toyota.
 

PyrPatriot

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Pretty much every major automaker has large engineering facilities in the US where they design some of their cars, usually their mid-size and larger SUVs and trucks.

Buy what you want, I do. I'm just trying to get people thinking. The American vs import isn't as black and white as it was in the 70s. Is buying a Honda Passport built in Ohio worse for the US economy than a Chevy Blazer built in Mexico? By almost every metric a Honda Pilot is more American than a Grand Cherokee other than which has a badge that was owned by a US company 20+ years ago. Personally I'd rather support the thousands of middle-income jobs that a factory supports than where the corporate HQ is. Losing FCA in the US would be bad but so would losing Nissan or Toyota.
Agreed. So with all else being equal, with both companies having a lot of workers here, I'll give the edge to the company with an American history when I can. But that is RARELY the case. For my Jeep, with something like 90% of its parts and assembly being made state-side, that was a huge motivator. But it really takes a back seat to supporting Toyota or Ford, who have factories within the vicinity.
 

DreamedofaJeepSomeday

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As an FCA err Stellaris err whatever the hell we are now, employee we're not completely thrilled either. Just know that regardless of what we're called, it's still North American people building those cars.
Exactly.
 

5JeepsAz

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Nay, be a Columbus to whole new continents and worlds within you, opening new
channels, not of trade, but of thought.
• Henry David Thoreau (1817–1862)

Some Hopewell burials and other offerings contained thousands of ornaments and
other fi nely crafted objects, many of which were im-
ported from great distances. Imported burial goods
include at least ten types of native copper ornaments,
fi nely-made stone bifacial tools, obsidian objects, mica
mirrors, smoking pipes of clay and stone, ornaments
of human bone and bear’s teeth, tools of deer bone,
quartz crystal, shell beads, and silver objects.
The emphasis on ornaments among the imported
goods of the Hopewell and other North American
cultures suggests that social factors were more im-
portant than strictly economic factors as stimuli for
trade. Elaborate ornaments and exotic goods were
most likely used in ceremonies and at other public
gatherings (before being deposited in offerings) to
communicate information about social identity and
status.

They probably served as sources of prestige
for high-ranking individuals.

This pattern contin-
ued in the most politically complex and spatially
expansive North American culture, the Mississippian
culture of southeastern and midwestern North America
(c. 1000–1550).

Archaeological sites of the Mississippian culture
are larger and more numerous than those of earlier
cultures. The largest Mississippian site—Cahokia—
was a true urban center with a substantial popula-
tion, monumental architecture, powerful rulers, and
various types of craft specialists. Many archaeologists
classify Cahokia as an example of the chiefdom form
of political organization. Cahokia was located in the
American Bottoms (in Illinois, across from St. Louis),
the largest expanse of rich alluvial fl oodplain along
the Mississippi River

www.public.asu.edu/~mesmith9/1-CompleteSet/MES-10-TradeEncyc.pdf
 

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Soccermike

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For 35 years, Peugeot and Citroen had nothing to contribute to the US market. 35 years ago, while working for GM, I spent 3 weeks at the Peugeot proving grounds. Their styles were laughable and let's never forget about wrong sided turn signals or using reverse threads on every bolt.
Look at everything Peugeot has to offer and ask yourself if any of it would sell in the US.

Bad for JEEP!
 

mr_bots

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For 35 years, Peugeot and Citroen had nothing to contribute to the US market. 35 years ago, while working for GM, I spent 3 weeks at the Peugeot proving grounds. Their styles were laughable and let's never forget about wrong sided turn signals or using reverse threads on every bolt.
Look at everything Peugeot has to offer and ask yourself if any of it would sell in the US.

Bad for JEEP!
It's probably not about bringing models here but maximizing scale out of each component. The same could have been said about Fiat when the took control of Chrysler (though FCA did spend a ton of cash trying to make Fiat relevant in the US). What's more worth noting is that out of six models in Jeep's lineup, three are based on Fiat platforms and the new GSE and GME engine are new, modern powertrains being used (or will be used) all over the world in a scale Chrysler or Fiat wouldn't have been able to do on their own. The same will be done with PSA. I'd hope they rummage through the parts bins and pick the best from each side of the table. Though honestly I have some skepticism as the last "merger of equals" was basically just Daimler cheapening every Chrysler model while the used their cashflow to bankroll Benz.
 

DreamedofaJeepSomeday

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Nay, be a Columbus to whole new continents and worlds within you, opening new
channels, not of trade, but of thought.
• Henry David Thoreau (1817–1862)

Some Hopewell burials and other offerings contained thousands of ornaments and
other fi nely crafted objects, many of which were im-
ported from great distances. Imported burial goods
include at least ten types of native copper ornaments,
fi nely-made stone bifacial tools, obsidian objects, mica
mirrors, smoking pipes of clay and stone, ornaments
of human bone and bear’s teeth, tools of deer bone,
quartz crystal, shell beads, and silver objects.
The emphasis on ornaments among the imported
goods of the Hopewell and other North American
cultures suggests that social factors were more im-
portant than strictly economic factors as stimuli for
trade. Elaborate ornaments and exotic goods were
most likely used in ceremonies and at other public
gatherings (before being deposited in offerings) to
communicate information about social identity and
status.

They probably served as sources of prestige
for high-ranking individuals.

This pattern contin-
ued in the most politically complex and spatially
expansive North American culture, the Mississippian
culture of southeastern and midwestern North America
(c. 1000–1550).

Archaeological sites of the Mississippian culture
are larger and more numerous than those of earlier
cultures. The largest Mississippian site—Cahokia—
was a true urban center with a substantial popula-
tion, monumental architecture, powerful rulers, and
various types of craft specialists. Many archaeologists
classify Cahokia as an example of the chiefdom form
of political organization. Cahokia was located in the
American Bottoms (in Illinois, across from St. Louis),
the largest expanse of rich alluvial fl oodplain along
the Mississippi River

www.public.asu.edu/~mesmith9/1-CompleteSet/MES-10-TradeEncyc.pdf
Did they drive Jeeps?
 

DreamedofaJeepSomeday

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. . . let's never forget about wrong sided turn signals or using reverse threads on every bolt.
Look at everything Peugeot has to offer and ask yourself if any of it would sell in the US.
I seem to remember at one time the stick shift pattern was backwards from the rest of the world. i.e., 1st on right side of H, 4th on left.

A car only Lt Columbo could love.
 

SwampNut

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"The last decent Jeep ever made" gets said every few years.

"Jeep will never be the same!"

"It's the end of the line!"

OMG SKY FALLING!!!
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