Gears ? For towing

[JPToro]

So bought the 2023 Gladiator Sport with the regular tow package . Didn’t want to wait for the max tow package jeep to show up on the color I wanted . Towing was going to be sporadic but things have changed . Now towing daily an enclosed trailer for work ( all the way within normals limits for weights ) but I am not loving at all the way the jeep is shifting . It will ride really long on higher gears and sometimes feel like I have to let go gas a little to help shifting , Other wise it will run a gear on 3500 to 4000 RPM way to long . So I am beating myself for not doing the max tow package. The dealer sold it with the factory Mojave take offs ( so not huge tires ) and I don’t want to go any bigger . So 2 main questions :
1 . Will re- gearing Make this thing shift better with less screaming?
2. and how much are we talking to go up on gears ( no changing tires at all ) ?
Thanks for any info !!!

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[ShadowsPapa]

Other wise it will run a gear on 3500 to 4000 RPM way to long .

1 . Will re- gearing Make this thing shift better with less screaming?

So, I'm curious - what's "way too long" for running over 3,000 RPM?
I run that for a mile and more quite often and that's when I'm NOT towing. Today, for example. At least two stretches of road with enough hill and weight and wind resistance I was well over a mile at over 3,000 rpm and never batted an eye.

I tow 5,000 pounds with larger tires than a Sport (32.2 is stock on Overland and I believe Sport tires are just under 32) and with 3.73 gears in my truck. 3500 isn't screaming. In fact, I'm really comfortable with it running 3,000-3,300 rpm.

I used to tow with a 2011 Silverado with a similar gear ratio and routinely saw 4,000-5,000 RPM. Chevy people thought I was crazy for worrying about the RPM.
I find in our long hills here and with the weight of a snow plow on the front (and the wind resistance), such as today, I was at 3,000 RPM for well over a mile, no big deal.
people get so used to the sub-2,000 RPM times that anything 3,000 is freak-out time.
If it was ok for my Chevy - it's ok for this little engine that has to hit some RPM to make any power.

Also - towing with any load or resistance, you are best at 65 or less. Some states used to have "towing speed limits" of 65, some were less. That's changed over the years, but still, I keep it no higher than 65 when towing. Better on the tiny trailer tires and bearings, better on everything.



Just for kicks - anyone recall the days when highway cruising speeds meant your engine was running 3,000 RPM, maybe more? My 70 had 3.15 gears, 3,000 RPM at highway speeds. I wonder what those guys running 3.54 gears were hitting on the highway!?

 

[Dartboy]

Did the dealer program the computer for the larger tires? i would assume so, since they sold it that way, but you never know.

 

[Rahkmalla]

Did the dealer program the computer for the larger tires? i would assume so, since they sold it that way, but you never know.

It's a dealer, my personal assumption is they did not.

 

[Lunentucker]

I find it interesting that in a video I watched last night Rory Irish explained that 4.11 is the strongest gear setup you can have. The pinion and ring size and fit give you optimal contact and meat on each.
Yes, I understand that you need more HP and torque for larger tires. He's got that.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Did the dealer program the computer for the larger tires? i would assume so, since they sold it that way, but you never know.

All you do is go in and plug in the correct number for the tire diameter as it sits on the truck. The actually BCM uses dynamic circumference. Apps like JSCAN, etc. use diameter and converts it for the BCM to dynamic circumference.
If they didn't make that simple 5 minute change, then the speedometer and odometer will be WAAY off. So all the OP has to do is drive by a radar sign, or use a GPS device or a GSP app on his phone (phone NOT connected to the truck in any way at all) and compare his speedometer or odometer to the GPS. If it matches or is REALLY close, then they made the change.

My gut says he's just bothered by high RPM - and shouldn't be. Like I said - when you tow you should get used to being up in the higher RPM ranges for a while, sometimes longer than you'd think.
LOW RPM is for empty cruising and high MPG. When you need HP - get over the low RPM.
It's bad for things anyway.

How tall are Mojave take-off tires? over 32.8 (which is what Rubicon Falken tires actually are)
I hauled and towed fine with Rubicon 32.8" tires on my Overland.

 

[Mac]

Doubt the change from 3.73s to 4.10s would make any noticeable difference in towing performance.

 

[CrazyCooter]

The difference between 3.73 and 4.10 is 9.1%. The difference between 7th and 8th is 20.1%.

I really think the issue here is where your 3.6 makes it's tq high in the powerband....... That said, with that narrow tq band, you could find yourself in between gears and that 9.1% change would help you out with keeping the rpm's lower than current under a load.

I'd be more inclined to do to 4.56's (18.2%) especially since you have a slightly taller tire and frequently tow. If she currently likes driving in 7th gear while unloaded, the 4.56 would be much the same in 8th.

Cost will likely range from $1600 at the economy shops that don't replace bearings to over $3K at a quality shop that insists on doing the job the best way possible and provides a warranty to back the job up.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

I find it interesting that in a video I watched last night Rory Irish explained that 4.11 is the strongest gear setup you can have. The pinion and ring size and fit give you optimal contact and meat on each.
Yes, I understand that you need more HP and torque for larger tires. He's got that.

Do you have a link to the video?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The difference between 3.73 and 4.10 is 9.1%. The difference between 7th and 8th is 20.1%.

I really think the issue here is where your 3.6 makes it's tq high in the powerband....... That said, with that narrow tq band, you could find yourself in between gears and that 9.1% change would help you out with keeping the rpm's lower than current under a load.

I'd be more inclined to do to 4.56's (18.2%) especially since you have a slightly taller tire and frequently tow. If she currently likes driving in 7th gear while unloaded, the 4.56 would be much the same in 8th.

Cost will likely range from $1600 at the economy shops that don't replace bearings to over $3K at a quality shop that insists on doing the job the best way possible and provides a warranty to back the job up.

I never understood the not replacing bearings. You are going to have to set pinion depth, preload, backlash and such in any case with new gears. You've got it apart, the labor to change bearings isn't that much (meaning little time) and since you have to change the things I already mentioned anyway due to gear swap - it just makes little sense to not change the bearings. Especially with any miles and knowing how these pinion bearings have behaved for a few folks.
Maybe you can educate me on that.............
I mean, if you have the tools, bearing changes are a "in your sleep" thing, at least for me.
What am I not seeing with these? Trying to get business by quoting a lower $$ number?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The difference between 3.73 and 4.10 is 9.1%. The difference between 7th and 8th is 20.1%.

I really think the issue here is where your 3.6 makes it's tq high in the powerband....... That said, with that narrow tq band, you could find yourself in between gears and that 9.1% change would help you out with keeping the rpm's lower than current under a load.

When towing, I don't care if I never see 8th, or for that matter, 7th. Let it run where it needs to for the power/torque.
I mean, my Ford and my Chevy had towing mode that literally could lock out "overdrive" and that's all the upper gears are on these.
Why are people afraid of 3,000 RPM - what am I missing?

 

[CrazyCooter]

I never understood the not replacing bearings. You are going to have to set pinion depth, preload, backlash and such in any case with new gears. You've got it apart, the labor to change bearings isn't that much (meaning little time) and since you have to change the things I already mentioned anyway due to gear swap - it just makes little sense to not change the bearings. Especially with any miles and knowing how these pinion bearings have behaved for a few folks.
Maybe you can educate me on that.............
I mean, if you have the tools, bearing changes are a "in your sleep" thing, at least for me.
What am I not seeing with these? Trying to get business by quoting a lower $$ number?

I used to do gear swaps only replacing as needed when I was starting my business and had to be low bidder to get the job. I'm now 21 years into self employment and I'm now known as the best in town, so I now feel that protecting my reputation is most important. I now replace every bearing and seal regardless of current mileage.....The Tacoma guys hate it when I bid a job for a truck with only 600 miles on it........Toyota won't warranty it after I was in there and I can't warranty Toyota bearings/seals?

Also in our state, the installer (Shop) has to provide a warranty on labor regardless of who supplied the part........If the used bearing fails OR you let the client bring it in, I'm still on the hook for the failure. I have since implemented the policy that I just don't do the job if I don't supply everything. It just doesn't make sense to take on more liability for less margin on the job?

That said, I didn't install new bearings on my own gear job.....My truck , so my own liability.

There is a guy here in town that is half my price and will only replace what absolutely needs to be replaced. His invoices are not even legal! Anyone who wants to take him to court would easily win a full refund on technicality alone. The poor guy works so many hours, probably makes nothing in the end, yet has all of this liability? Poor business model in my opinion, but he has his clientele and I have mine.....There's enough to keep us both busy!

 

[CrazyCooter]

When towing, I don't care if I never see 8th, or for that matter, 7th. Let it run where it needs to for the power/torque.
I mean, my Ford and my Chevy had towing mode that literally could lock out "overdrive" and that's all the upper gears are on these.
Why are people afraid of 3,000 RPM - what am I missing?

Agreed!

I set mine up (Diesel)to tow heavy on the flats in 7th, slight hills and heavy headwind in 6th, and climb 9% hills in 5th. I figure 6th (Direct) is the strongest gear being direct, less heat and wear occurring, so that should be the gear that sees the most use under a load?

The 3.6 is a high strung engine, so best to rev it higher and reduce load than to lug under heavy and rattle it apart?

Tow mode would be nice for sure!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Poor business model in my opion, but he has his clientele and I have mine.....There's enough to keep us both busy!

Yeah, I get that part for sure.......... my work goes on top full pro restorations, trophy winners, the "other guy's work" goes on budget "make it work make it look decent" cars.
We're both busy. I've never advertised or solicited work, the other guy advertises constantly on eBay, etc.

 

[Lunentucker]

Do you have a link to the video?

I'm working today but I'll post it later this evening.

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